I think the idea of competition is an excellent one. I too think CILIP has the monopoly (we have to pay them or we don't get job adverts, professional journals, and we also have our chartership removed if we no longer want to be members of CILIP). Maybe if there was another group (as there used to be with the LA and the Information Scientists) they would both work harder for us. I for one wouldn't mind paying a little more if we saw that CILIP was actually out there doing things for us. Also, we're always being told if we want change to do more within CILIP ourselves but i'm not sure if this is the answer a chartered accountant would get if they weren't happy with their version of CILIP...

I'm currently gathering things for my PDR but i'm waiting for things to settle before i actually write things up.

Sarah

Sarah Bruch
Multidisciplinary Library
Prince Philip Hospital
Dafen
Llanelli
Carmarthenshire
SA14 8QF

Tel/Fax: 01554 749301

>>> Edmund Chamberlain <[log in to unmask]> 15-Jan-04 10:01:36 am >>>
Firstly, I'm new to this list, so hello to all, and I look forward to using it
as a helpful resource in my Route A Chartership, which I am starting this
month.
Vased on recent posts and a look at the archives, i've got two points:
i)As a recent Library school graduate, I saw chartership as simply the new
step up the ladder. Whilst I am still optimistic that it will help me in my
career,
I realise that it means little to those outside of the profession, unlike say
chartered accounancy, which is recognised by all. This is partly due to the
lack of recognition we recive professionally as a whole (many of my fellow
students at Loughborough were amazed you needed an MA to be a Librarian,
somthing they saw akin to working at Tescos!). However, could CILIP not be
more active in championing us??

ii)Secondly, I realise this is not the place to discuss opposition to CILIP,
although I would very much like to see such a discussion take place. When i
compare our high fees to those of other proffessional organisation that my
peers are members of (i.e. law, accountancy, engineering) we do not pay as
much, and the benefits are slim, especially given the lack of recognition we
recive. As far as i am aware, CILIP has a monopoly on us. We need to pay a
sizeable amount to be in it, and need it to progress in our careers. But
outside the cozy (or not so cozy) world of our Librarys, what is it really
doing for us in terms of pay and recogntion?? Prehaps it would be more
pro-active  if it had competition, and saw its regular income decline as
people go elsewhere. Could CILIP be changed from within, or would it requre
external pressure?? I would like to see this discussion continue, but
elsewhere, were it will not distract me from my work too much!

just my twopence ;-)
Ed Chamberlain
Systems Assistant
London Library

>===== Original Message From Dave Guest <[log in to unmask]> =====
>Playing devil's advocate (after recently chartering after more years
>than I care to think about) I am not entirely happy about chartering.
>Does it really provide evidence of our continuing professional
>development or is it the practice element of a theory based course? Do
>those who have chartered continue the process or do they play lip
>service to departmental CPD schemes?
>
>During the 1970's & 1980's when I was an engineer most factories
>operated what was known as a closed shop. If you did not belong to the
>relevant union you did not get the job but the government of the time
>outlawed this practice for union members but retained and actively
>encouraged it for the Professions. Membership of professional bodies
>guarantees the members a protected status & therefore better
>renumeration think lawyers, solicitors or architects. Whilst other
>professions use CPD as evidence of their ability to practice think
>doctors, nurses, physio's etc. So what does chartership give us apart
>from the satisfaction of jumping through hoops? Our profession is not
>protected, you are not better renumerated and it gives no real
>indication of ability to do the job. Where is the evidence that
>chartership is effective in developing the individual & the profession?
>
>It is refreshing that people new to the profession should be
>enthusiastic but they should also challenge & question the norms rather
>than just accepting them.
>
>Finally removing a pain may be quick but addressing the source of the
>pain will be more effective.
>
>Dave Guest
>
>PS Any candidates who wish to visit the Lanchester Library at Coventry
>will be more than welcome.
>
>Lesha Fossey wrote:
>
>>Dear everyone
>>
>>Fristly, thanks Linda for your positive words.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Dear Jo (and anyone else thinking of unsubscribing) - before doing so, take
>>>a look at the list archives on the Jiscmail Web site.  You'll see that the
>>>disucssion of the last few days is not at all typical of this list.
>>>I chartered in July last year, and found the list incredibly useful in
terms
>>>of both information and support. (I even discussed the benefits of my list
>>>subscription in my pdr!)  Don't let the negative postings of a few
>>>embittered individuals spoil it for the rest of us.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Unfortunately Rowena and I have been forced to make a choice. People
intending
>>to Charter and working towards it are saying (on the list and in personal
emails
>>to me) that they are unhappy to remain on the list if Emilce Rees remain on
it.
>>Therefore, as Emilce has stated she is definitely not working towards
>>Chartering, and has continually voiced her objections to the process, we
have
>>reluctantly taken the decision to remove her from the list, in order that it
can
>>continue to provide support and a positive environment to those for whom it
was
>>set up.
>>
>>I hope you don't feel this is heavy-handed. As a look at the list archives
will
>>easily demonstrate I am not against vigorous discussion! ;-) But this
>>particular situation has not improved (after many months) and it must end.
The
>>basic premise of why we are here on the list has to be borne in mind, and I
am
>>afraid that when it comes down to it, we'd rather lose Emilce's contribution
>>than that of several active Charter candidates.
>>
>>Emilce's email address is in the archives, for any of you who wish to
continue
>>discussions directly with her. She may even set up her own email discussion
>>list....
>>
>>Lesha
>>
>>--
>>----------------------
>>Lesha Fossey  MA MCLIP
>>Assistant Librarian, Circulation Services
>>University of Exeter
>>Stocker Road            TEL: 01392 263878
>>Exeter                  FAX: 01392 263871
>>EX4 4PT         E-MAIL: [log in to unmask] 
>>
>>

Edmund Chamberlain
Library Systems Assistant
The London Library
14 St James's Square
London SW1Y 4LG
Tel: 020 7766 4733
email: [log in to unmask] 

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