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Subject: VICTORIA Digest - 17 Nov 2004 to 18 Nov 2004 (#2004-162)
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Date: Fri, November 19, 2004 5:00 am
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There are 14 messages totalling 472 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Charlotte Corday
2. Ruskin and tourism
3. Chris Willis's Website (2)
4. Chris Willis (4)
5. Sermons about Victorian gentlemen
6. Ruskin and Evangelicalism
7. Pound Calculator for old currency
8. Two items on DRACULA
9. empathy for literary characters
10. Dorothea, Ladislaw, empathy (was seeking...)
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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:34:46 -0000
From: Judith Flanders <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Charlotte Corday
Not, of course, a Victorian book, but produced by a writer born and =
educated
in the Victorian era: in one of the P. G. Wodehouse stories (I'm sorry, =
I
can't remember which), Bingo Little falls in love with the daughter of a
socialist agitator, who rejoices in the name of Charlotte Corday =
Ramsbottom.
I wondered at the choice of revolutionary hero(ine), but I now suspect =
that
it was Carlyle, possibly read at school, that influenced Wodehouse.
Best
Judith Flanders
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:37:29 -0000
From: Judith Flanders <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ruskin and tourism
Can anyone point me in the direction of the source of this Ruskin quote: he
was complaining of 'the stupid herd of modern tourists [who] let themselves
be emptied, like coals from a sack, at Windermere'. The journalist who
quoted it suggested it was from the 1870s, if that's of any help.
Best
Judith Flanders
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:49:17 +0000
From: Malcolm Shifrin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Chris Willis's Website
Ellen Moody wrote:
> I've just been reading Chris Willis's website. It's beautiful:
> humane, informative, filled with everything one longs to see
> just about everywhere. What a better world it would be
> were such a website common.
>
> I am wondering what will happen to her website. Will
> someone or some organization pick it up and maintain
> it?
Since the actions of many web hosting companies are often unpredictable,
and since Chris used a version of Microsoft FrontPage which I also use
for my own website, I took the precaution some days ago of uploading her
website onto a portable hard disk for safety.
I do not know her partner, but if he thought that this would be a good
idea and needed help, I should be more than happy to work with him to
remove any of the more personal pages that he didn't wish to preserve,
check the links on her pages, add a contributed biographical note and,
perhaps a link to the tributes in the VICTORIA archive. In the unlikely
event that he doesn't know the password, the site could still be
uploaded as a "new" site. I suspect that it would probably be most
appropriate for some academic institution to host the site.
Perhaps someone who knows Chris's partner would convey this message to
him at a time which seems appropriate.
Malcolm
--
Malcolm Shifrin
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------------------
Visit our website, a not-for-profit
educational project based in the UK
http://www.victorianturkishbath.org/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:52:00 GMT
From: Lesley Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Chris Willis's Website
Re the suggestions about this, and Malcolm Shifrin's
offer. I don't know her partner but I have had contact
with a friend of a friend and might be able to pass
this along. However, there may be other people on
Victoria with rather closer contacts than this ?
Lesley Hall
[log in to unmask]
www.lesleyahall.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:00:23 -0000
From: Paul Lewis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Chris Willis
I have been thinking about Chris Willis and the strange disturbing =
nature of
early death, a feature of Victorian life we are generally and thankfully
free from, and wondering how, and indeed whether, to add my few words to =
the
general grief which the list has expressed.
My thoughts are two. First, the astonishing thing about Chris, and I =
realise
it more now that I have looked with greater care than before at her
wonderful website, is that with her the personal was political and the
political was personal. She did not have a political life and an =
academic
life. Her socialist, humanitarian, feminist views were indivisible from =
her
interests in literature and the Victorian era. Many of us, me included, =
try
to keep them separate as if it would somehow damage our credibility if =
our
political views were known. I write for my living and have to be =
objective.
And indeed am contractually obliged to keep my political views to myself
when broadcasting for the BBC. But of course my beliefs affect my work, =
what
I choose to do and to write about, and how I approach the stories that I =
do.
But perhaps it is more honest to wear those views publicly and to end =
posts
to this list with a quote or a statement about the sad state of the =
world
and the way Governments treat its people. I am interested how many of =
the
responses to Chris's life mentioned those PSes, irrelevant to the post =
but
so relevant not just to Chris's life but to all our lives. So the nature =
of
objectivity is my first thought.
My second is from a more bibliographic perspective - preserving the =
websites
of the deceased. How does a website get preserved? Should one leave =
money in
trust to maintain a domain name and server space to store the site in
perpetuity? Is there a solicitor in the world who would think of =
mentioning
that when a will is made? Or advise us to put our server passwords into =
that
will or letter of wishes? I doubt it. And yet as we regret and tut tut =
over
burned letters, lost manuscripts, key documents thrown out by relatives =
in
the 19C, so we should think of the electronic heritage of today's =
scholars
and writers. Our thanks should go to Malcolm for his foresight in =
rescuing
that electronic document before harm could come to it. What a tragedy if =
it
had been lost.=20
I shall be thinking of Chris Willis and her legacy on November 23rd. As =
I am
sure so many of us will. A remarkable life, cut short.
best wishes
=20
Paul
=20
Paul Lewis
Mobile 07836 217 311
Web www.paullewis.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:43:46 -0000
From: simon poe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sermons about Victorian gentlemen
I know both Thomas Arnold's and Charles Kingsley's sermons were collected
and published. They'd be worth looking at, I'd have thought.
Simon
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 05:35:52 -0800
From: Sara Atwood <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ruskin and Evangelicalism
One excellent book you'll want to look at is Michael Wheeler's Ruskin's
God, which is a study of Ruskin and religion. Ruskin was raised in the
rigid Evangelicalism of his parents (his mother, he tells us in
Praeterita, had dedicated him to God and wished him to become a
clergyman). In his early books we can see evidence of this Evangelical
belief (Modern Painters, Stones of Venice, The Seven Lamps of
Architecture). But by the time he wrote Unto This Last, he had experienced
what he called his "un-conversion" while abroad at Turin in the summer of
1858 (see Works 29:89). After this experience, his belief became more
humanistic, and less dogmatic and rigid and he regretted what he called
the "pieces of rabid and utterly false Protestantism" (8:15) that had
appeared in his earlier books. Van Akin Burd notes that Ruskin was
"seeking religious truth beyond theological dogma." Ruskin supported
Bishop Colenso during the storm that erupted over the publication of the
Bishop's Examination of
the Pentateuch and the Book of Joshua in 1862. In his discussions of the
Bible, Ruskin emphasizes the necessity of reading accurately, of
understanding the true intended meaning of the words, rather than
indulging in a blind belief.
In addition to Wheeler's book, you might look at the introduction to Van
Akin Burd's volume of The Winnington Letters, and Tim Hilton's 2-volume
biography of Ruskin.
All best,
Sara Atwood
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:33:23 -0600
From: Patrick Leary <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Pound Calculator for old currency
In a stunning example of cooperative and philanthropic problem-solving,
Rosemary Oakeshott, with able assistance from Jennifer Kenney and in
consultation with Judith Flanders, has created what may be the ultimate
"ready reckoner" for Victorianists -- an Excel worksheet that helps us do
our sums in the old currency, down to the last farthing. Unlike the
versions we were tinkering with a few weeks ago, this one allows one to
multiply and divide, converts to decimal currency, and even features a
splash of color. On everyone's behalf let me express our thanks to all
three listmembers for this handy gadget.
I've put it on the VRW server for easy downloading (it's about 900K in
size). You can look it up under the "Other Resources of Interest" section
or go straight to it here:
http://victorianresearch.org/Pound_Calculator.xls
where you can either save it through your browser or open it directly. If
you run into a problem downloading it from the website, drop me a note
privately (not to the list, please) at [log in to unmask]
-- Patrick
____________
Patrick Leary
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 06:21:31 -0800
From: "elise m. ciregna" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Chris Willis
Dear All,
I have resisted putting my two cents in, since I am one of the many who
never actually met Chris but who had a wonderful, sporadic
e-correspondence with her. I have, however, had a few thoughts about
preserving her legacy, and thought I would just toss this into the ring.
Chris and I shared at least two passions: historic cemeteries and animal
welfare (we traded notes on our respective broods of cats). We also
discussed and lamented two aspects of the work we had done in these two
areas, namely the underprotection of both, and their less than adequate
funding. If you look at Chris' website you will find links to several
organizations in the UK that protect and preserve cemeteries and mausolea,
as well as links to cat protection leagues. (Also see her own darling
cats.)
Why not make a donation in her name to one of the organizations she
cherished so? (As an "In Memory Of" or something similar is standard.)
Alternatively, if someone who knew her really well wanted to start a
donation to an organization in her name I would certainly be happy to
contribute. In this way her name could be attached in some small way to
the bigger picture that she was such a vibrant part of.
It may not be appropriate for me to suggest this, but just a thought.
Best,
Elise
Elise M. Ciregna
Ph.D. Program in American Civilization
University of Delaware and the Winterthur Museum
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:31:22 +0000
From: scar736765 <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Chris Willis
I never met Chris Willis either, but I feel deeply that I must share
with the list how much she helped me (with email information) when I was
having difficulty with an essay on Braddon and *The Doctor's Wife* and I
also find her website extremely helpful. I hope it can be kept. I,
too, will be thinking of her on Tuesday, 23rd.
Sharon Hodgson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:38:31 -0330
From: Elizabeth Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Two items on DRACULA
Teachers/students of DRACULA might be interested in the following:
1. I have created a new website, the Dracula Research Centre (URL below)
which contains, among other things, articles from back issues of the
Journal of Dracula Studies (1999-2003) and several primary documents
relating to Stoker and his novel.
2. Bram Stoker's Dracula: A Documentary Volume (#304 in the Dictionary of
Literary Biography series) has just been published. You can link to the
publisher's press release from both of the websites below.
Elizabeth Miller
[log in to unmask]
http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~emiller/ [Dracula's homepage]
http://www.blooferland.com/drc [Dracula Research Centre]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:18:52 -0600
From: Mary Lenard <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: empathy for literary characters
I''m adding my name to the list of people who have identified Johanna
Spyri's Heidi as a character with whom they identified. The reason I
identified with Heidi, though, was because of her closeness to the two
grandmother figures in the book--Peter's poor old grandmother, who is
so grateful for Heidi's affection and attention, and Klara's
"grandmama," Frau Sesemann, who teaches Heidi to read and is the only
character to make her life in Frankfurt less unhappy. I was extrememly
close to my paternal grandmother, and can absolutely empathize, even now,
with Heidi's love for these two grandmothers. Heidi's strongest desire is
to return to her home on the Alm, not only to return to her grandfather,
but so that Peter's grandmother can see her before she dies. The old
woman's
joy and thankfulness at seeing Heidi again still moves me, every time I
re-read this book.
I'm also interested that there were a few people on the list who felt the
need to "apologize" for having been moved by characters like Beth in
_Little Women_. Why apologize? Why cling to the remnants of the New
Critical hostility to sentimentality? Surely it's that hostility--IA
Richards went so far to compare sympathetic emotional reactions to a
disease--that has resulted in the degradation of so much of Victorian
women's literature. And, as I point out in my book _Preaching Pity_ and my
Dickens Studies Annual article on this subject, the anti-sentimentality
reaction obviously affected Dickens' critical reputation as well.
When are we going to stop apologizing for liking books that "Jones at the
Club" (see Thackeray's _Vanity Fair_) sneers at down his
oh-so-intellectual noses? Down with Jones!!!
Dr. Mary Lenard
English Department
University of Wisconsin-Parkside
900 Wood Road
Kenosha, WI 53141-2000
(262) 595-2644
"People mutht be amuthed." Charles Dickens, _Hard Times_
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:43:23 +0100
From: Julia Bolton Holloway <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Chris Willis
Might I make a suggestion, following Elise M. Ciregna's? Having often
turned to Chris Willis' website on Mausolea . . . Florence's English
Cemetery is badly in need of funds for restoration, particularly since
Sunday's spectacular wind storm felled several cypresses, which went
dominoing one into the other, and also overturned and smashed some tombs,
mercifully not EBB's, nor Walter Savage Landor's, nor Fanny and Theodosia
Trollope's, nor Isa Blagden's nor Arthur Hugh Clough's . . . We also seek
books written by or about these persons for its library, etc. Forgive me .
. .
Julia Bolton Holloway, Director
Biblioteca e Bottega Fioretta Mazzei
'English Cemetery', Piazzale Donatello, 38
50132 Florence, Italy [log in to unmask]
http://www.umilta.net http://www.florin.ms/aleph.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:52:27 -0800
From: "Margot K. Louis" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Dorothea, Ladislaw, empathy (was seeking...)
Rohan Maitzen in a fascinating post writes, in part:
> My own interpretation of Middlemarch
>thus pressures me to distance myself from "poor Dorothea" (who is, as many
>critics point out) ironized even in the climactic moment of her union with
>Will--"I will learn what everything costs!"
Hm. It's true she's "ironized" in the sense that the style of this
comment, in a love scene, reminds us of her childlike naivete and
inexperience, but I think this very comment is also her grandest moment in
that it expresses a profound underlying common sense and responsibility,
lacking in (for instance) Lydgate, who--not childlike, but childish--never
does learn what everything costs till it's too late, so he pays too much
for everything and ends up with the wrong thing anyway. One could argue
that _Middlemarch_ is precisely about learning what everything costs, being
responsibly ready to pay that cost, and realizing what it is one wants to
pay for.
Part of the cost (as Ladislaw realizes) is giving up the infinite
and indefinite potentiality of talented youth to accomplish a necessarily
somewhat limited but definite task in the world. Dorothea by marrying
_anyone_ under 19c conditions of marriage makes this sacrifice, but with
Ladislaw something _can_ be accomplished as it can't with Casaubon. I
can't agree, however, with this part of the otherwise illuminating Gilbert
& Gubar quotation Rohan adduces:
> Thus in his romance
>with Dorothea Eliot substitutes the equality of a brother/sister model for
>the hierarchical inadequacy of father/daughter relationships, and some of
>the dislike of Will might very well be related to the erotic sibling
>relationship which is here (as elsewhere in Eliot's fiction) made to
>function as an alternative to the power struggles of heterosexuality.
Most brother/sister relationships are not very egalitarian at all,
as _The Mill on the Floss_ amply demonstrates, and they are certainly not
free of power struggles. The interesting thing about the Dorothea/Ladislaw
relationship is that it has sexual charge without much in the way of a
sexual power struggle. Will and Dorothea are like two fallen playfellows
who are exploring the world together, rather than competing with one
another in the love-hate tensions of (for instance) the Tulliver family.
So he really does represent a kind of maleness that our society (still)
can't handle very well.
Rohan remarks:
>empathy (such as the feelings so many of us have had for Jane
>Eyre...) blocks our critical faculties or impedes our judgment precisely
>because of the degree of identification and emotional commitment involved.
>Sympathy, on the other hand, at least as GE teaches it in Middlemarch,
>accompanies judgment.
I agree about sympathy, but I would suggest an alternative model
for the effect of empathy. Instead of separating us _from_ the character
so we assess her (or him) as from on high, empathy enables us to experience
the character's growth more closely so that we grow a little with her (or
him). (Here the distinction between empathy and fantasy identification
that I was drawing earlier is crucial.) Empathy could therefore increase
our understanding at a more profound level than the more coolly
intellectual but emotionally distanced effects of sympathy-plus-judgment.
The point is not whether Jane is "exemplary" (no Bronte heroine is that,
happily), but what repressed feelings (in her, in the reader, in society)
are discovered and explored by the reader accompanying her on her journey.
Surely one of Eliot's own points is that Dorothea's capacity for
emotional commitment enables her to grow, both emotionally and
intellectually, in a way unavailable to the spiritually barren shrewdness
of a Celia or a Mrs. Cadwallader, because her passion impels her to take
risks, perform follies, try out unconventional behaviours from which she
learns even when she makes a fool of herself. So I would certainly agree
that it is better to be Dorothea than Celia. But Celia isn't capable of
sympathy, really, so one might rather want to ask in this context: Is it
better to be Dorothea or Caleb Garth (who is certainly capable of both
sympathy and judgment)? I'm not sure Eliot could answer that question.
She admires both, ironizes Dorothea but not Caleb, but who can't feel that
Dorothea has at least the capacity to be larger than Caleb?
Margot K. Louis
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
End of VICTORIA Digest - 17 Nov 2004 to 18 Nov 2004 (#2004-162)
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