---- Original message ----
>Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 04:01:13 -0500
>From: Rebecca Seiferle <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Coherent traditions (was Re: Performance Poetry)
>To: Alison Croggon <[log in to unmask]>
>
>Well, Alison, I think for me, and I'm speaking from outside this particular loop, it
>might be more informative or helpful if you were to say what you feel is the
>"tradition" of British alternative poetry that you see, or the several that you see.
>I'm not so interested in the posturing within British and Irish poetics, as in trying
>to understand what I'm (from over here) unaware of; I have the feeling as if I
>were at a tea party where there's a kind of quarreling over this and that, and I
>have no idea what 'this' and 'that' are. Though anyone else might chime in too.
>Perhaps it would help illuminate this particular discussion if everyone who has
>an opinion about the tradition of British alternative poetry were to explain it for
>us beleagured yanks and others,. Seriously if there's a bone being gnawed over
>here, what is it?
>
>genuinely confused (as usual, though she might say on her behalf, as usual, not
>without reason)
>
>Rebecca
>
>Rebecca Seiferle
>www.thedrunkenboat.com
>
>---- Original message ----
>>Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 11:11:13 +1100
>>From: Alison Croggon <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Coherent traditions (was Re: Performance Poetry)
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>In Alternating Current, Paz says that it's criticism which makes a
>>literature, otherwise it's just a bunch of disparate writers. And
>>"tradition" is something that's forged out of discourse around poetry as
>>much as by the poetry itself.
>>
>>I can't agree, either, that there is no "tradition" of British alternative
>>poetry (if there isn't, why can I see one? Or better, several?) But the
>>real question is in the discourse around poetry, rather than the poetry
>>itself. There are a number of anthologies which document it - from Children
>>of Albion to Keith Tuma's British and Irish Poetry. There's actually quite
>>a lot of criticism - including the negative criticisms. I don't understand,
>>with those traditions so firmly there and documented, why people want to act
>>as if it doesn't exist.
>>
>>Best
>>
>>A
>>
>>
>>On 28/11/04 12:10 AM, "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Shouldn't this now have a new tag?
>>>
>>> Anyway, I too am having trouble with Dave's statement that there is no
>>> coherent avant garde tradition in Britain. It is an alternative tradition,
>>> yes, but it was there, and is there, and by the looks of things regarding
>>> recent developments it will continue to be there, probably still alternative
>>> but what the hell, this is England.
>>>
>>> Nevertheless, there is a grain of truth in the idea that it lacks coherence,
>>> if by coherence we mean it lacks something that can stick it together, not
>>> lacks coherence in the sense of it not making sense - Dave never really
>>> clarified this point. I tried discussing this once on some thread about the
>>> differences between the strength in depth of the discussion that went on on
>>> some of the American lists compared with the more sparse and hit and miss
>>> exchanges between avant enthusiasts here.
>>> Tim A.
>>
>>
>>
>>Alison Croggon
>>
>>Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
>>Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au
>>Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com
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