this is typical 'academics' nit picking and presumptuous that the world
divides neatly into 'statisticians' and non-statisticans which it does not.
you don;t need a degree in stats to read an axis on a graph. further, I am
not a non-statistician, with a degree in mathematics, nine years in
commercial business in operational research and related fields and an MSc in
Comparative Social Policy before joining the health service.

You have a point that WTE would possibly reduce the number of nurses but the
issue of headcounts is only partially relevant, as each nurse must still be
qualified, therefore trained, whether that nurse works part-time or not.
Also, a trained nurse may not work in one hospital or trust but over
several, so adding up the WTE bits will come to 'almost' the same number of
nurses anyway, providing, i grant you, that the nurse is not being
head-counted in two trusts twice. But you say the Audit commission has
reviewed the figures, so we can presume this has not happened.

I submit that the issue is of relevance to the group, if there is something
more in the stats that is 'dodgy', from a statistical point of view. I
simply cannot see it. sorry. maybe i'm too stupid.

Information Team Manager

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-----Original Message-----
From: Macfarlane, Alison [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 27 July 2004 17:13
To: 'Clive Ingram'; [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: PM's dodgy use of statistics




Sorry, I was in a hurry so didn't repeat the point I made in a previous
email to non-statisticians. This is that although the quality of the data
used may have been accredited by the Audit Commission, it is the
presentation which is dodgy in that very few graphs start at zero on the
vertical axis, so the extent of change is exaggerated. There is also the
issue of using headcounts rahter than whole time equivalent for nuses. I
didn't look at all closely at non-health subjects, but there were loads of
vertical axes starting well above zero,

Alison Macfarlane

PS. We will very shortly get our knuckles wrapped, as allstat is not a
discussion list. If you would like to discuss it further, we should do so
off list or on the radstats list.

-----Original Message-----
From: Clive Ingram [mailto:[log in to unmask]
<mailto:[log in to unmask]> ]
Sent: 27 July 2004 16:44
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: PM's dodgy use of statistics


If these stats are 'dodgy' then I think you need to prove it. I'm not in a
position to query them, not having access to any but our own at this
hospital, but they do not look that 'dodgy' to me. Have any of the academics

any real evidence that they are not right? Or are you making a political
point?

Information Team Manager
Mobile 07775 687 538
Pager 07659 104 758
Office 0121 627 8923
Internal x 8516




-----Original Message-----
From: Macfarlane, Alison [mailto:[log in to unmask]
<mailto:[log in to unmask]> ]
Sent: 27 July 2004 16:36
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: PM's dodgy use of statistics


Try this

http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page6153.asp
<http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page6153.asp>


-----Original Message-----
From: Janet Peacock [mailto:[log in to unmask]
<mailto:[log in to unmask]> ]
Sent: 27 July 2004 16:27
To: Macfarlane, Alison
Subject: RE: PM's dodgy use of statistics


Alison

I seems to have been removed already -- someone has noticed!!

Janet

__________________________________________________
Janet Peacock
Professor of Health Statistics
Dept of Health and Social Care
Brunel University
Borough Road
Isleworth
TW7 5DU
Tel : 020 8891 0121 x 2503
Email : [log in to unmask]



-----Original Message-----
From: A UK-based worldwide e-mail broadcast system mailing list
[mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ]On Behalf Of
Macfarlane, Alison
Sent: 27 July 2004 16:21
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: PM's dodgy use of statistics


See Michael Barber's presentation on the No 10 web site. This was cascaded
to us at work via the Statistics Commission. David Rhind said guardedly that

it looks impressive at first sight. Too right, take a second look!!

http://www.number-10.gov.uk/files/other/Press%20presentationversion%2021.7.0
<http://www.number-10.gov.uk/files/other/Press%20presentationversion%2021.7.
0>
4.ppt

Alison Macfarlane

Alison Macfarlane
Department of Midwifery
City University
24 Chiswell Street
London EC1Y 4TY

Please note change of address
Phone numbers and email addresses have not changed but my fax number has
changed

Tel (44)(0) 207 040 5832
Fax (44)(0) 207 040 5866
Email [log in to unmask]
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