Paul;
    thank you, that helps me to understand things from your perspective much
better.  I would have to agree with you regarding the majority of your
statements.  I too, see many problems re: the PT tendon and the peroneals
when the fibular translation is blocked.  I initially look at this as a
problem with AJ dorsiflexion, or equinus.  This will translate well into the
current discussion re: retrogade MTJ collapse and AJ equinus caused by
Functional Hallux limitus.  In other words, as the talus continuously stays
plantrflexed due to MTJ collapse, you will have less AJ dorsiflexion, and
hence much less superior or cephalad(?) translation.
Excellent discussion!  I do enjoy how others come to many of the conclusions
that I have as well.  You should read Dr. Dananbergs paper on AJ
manipulation and also his works on Chronic low Back pain.  This should be
right up your alley!
Cheers!
Bruce Williams
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Conneely" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 8:31 PM
Subject: Re: GRF on Forefoot, What Moves?


> Dear All
>
> Sorry if I got where Dr. Nester came from. I thought we lived in the
> global village.
>
> The statements I made regarding what he found and what you refute
> reagrding the calcaneous and cuboid was not that was discussed by several
> of us at lunch after the paper was presented.
>
> The four of us thought he said what I wrote.
>
> I believe that the cuboid and calcaneous are not part of the foot motion
> after heel strike during motion in a gravity field, they are for standing
> upon.
>
> Regarding my statement regarding the biceps femoris.
>
> There is no written paper yet. I have been working on this for a period of
> several years.
>
> I have had several discussions with Professors of Anatomy regarding this.
> Professor Bogduk from Newcastle University (Australia) agrees with me.
>
> When a fibula is mobile at both joints (VIP)
> at the superior joint will translate in the sagittal plane about 3 to 5
> mm. In some individuals over 1cm motion is available to them.
>
> In the superior/inferior (right angles to ground) it will translate on
> average 5mm.
>
> The inferior pole is connected the lateral calcaneous via the External
> Lateral Ligament's middle fascicle.
>
> This fascicle runs from the tip of the fibula in a posterior direction to
> the middle of the os calcaneous.
>
> The anterior fascicle of the External Lateral Ligament travels from the
> inferoanterior margin of the fibula to the talus (in an anterior
> direction) to attach just infront of the talus.
>
> The final fascicle the posterior fascicle runs from the inner side of the
> tip of the lateral malleolus to the talus and attaches just behind the
> facet joint.
>
> Now, some time ago I was rehabbing an athletes biceps femoris using a TEMS
> (trans epidermal electrical stimulator) so as to induce muscle recruiting
> as well as coordinated contraction when the muscle was unloaded prior to
> the athlete performing antigravity exercises, that is loading the muscle.
>
> This particular athlete has the biggest hamstrings that I or any other
> athlete have seen. he is 6 foot 3inches, is 98Kg and has a sixpack. There
> is no fat on him he, like many others is a freak of nature.
>
> While working with him I noted his ankle would evert slightly on
> occassions when there was a large electrical stimulus given to the muscle.
> I was concerned that he had turned to machine up (as athletes do) and was
> now activating the peroneal muscles.
>
> This was not the case.
>
> I then inverted his foot while he was in the supine position and at each
> pulse there was an eversion moment made at the calcaneous.
>
> I havew repeated this many times, including on myself as I write this.
>
> Thus with the fibula head moving cephalward with the biceps contraction
> and knowing my anatomy I started to put 2 and 2 together.
>
> I believe the fibulas cephalard motion is to:
> - evert the heel and
> - pull the talus medially and posteriorly so as to keep the medial foot
> from locking so as to allow the walking/etc. foot to adapt to the terrain
> and this is finalised just before total tibial weight is placed upon the
> talus when the talus is then promoted in a screwlike fashion (eg. right
> foot anticlockwise). Just after total weight on the talus the
> sustentaculum tali causes the breaking of the standing foot and the
> locking of the walking/etc. foot is permitted and thus forces (propulsion
> forces; ground reaction forces; etc.) are directed towards the base of the
> great toe so as the FLH can do its job.
>
> Since that time I have yet to see an injured biceps that did not have an
> immobile fibula/calcaneous/talus attached at the other end.
>
> As my late mother used to say, "if you have a peice of string a foot long
> and tie a knot in it, it will be short at one end!". She was not wrong.
>
> I am certain that if the fibula was a tendon we would have all come to
> this conclusion many a century ago. To me the fibula is just a calcified
> tendon.
>
> Another role for the fibila is via the interosseous membrane. When it
> moves cephalwards (should) it changes the orientation of the fibres of the
> tib posterior and the others in the calf.
>
> The aim of this is to stop a sheering motion at their attachment. There is
> some interesting work being done in NZ regarding where tears/injuries
> occur when the muscle fibres are not correctly orientated during loading
> both eccentric and concentric.
>
> Again I see posterior tibial muscle problems in individuals who have
> fibula motion problems. To me they go hand in hand.
>
> This is a brief oversight of how I think the foot works are studying it
> for over 16 years.
>
> Thanks for reading.
> Regards,
>
> Paul Conneely www.musmed.com.au
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This message was distributed by the Podiatry JISCmail list server
>
> All opinions and assertions contained in this message are those of
> the original author. The listowner(s) and the JISCmail service take
> no responsibility for the content.
>
> to leave the Podiatry email list send a message containing the text
> leave podiatry
> to [log in to unmask]
>
> Please visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk for any further information
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>

-----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was distributed by the Podiatry JISCmail list server

All opinions and assertions contained in this message are those of
the original author. The listowner(s) and the JISCmail service take
no responsibility for the content.

to leave the Podiatry email list send a message containing the text
leave podiatry
to [log in to unmask]

Please visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk for any further information
-----------------------------------------------------------------