----- Original Message -----
From: "david.bircumshaw" <[log in to unmask]>
To: "Lawrence Upton" <[log in to unmask]>;
<[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 3:24 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Árni Ibsen
David
I find your news that you sing Zimbawean hymns & your complementary question
"how much more right on than that can you get?" collectively and separately
unanswerable in this context, but possibly not in the way you intended.
I am quietly pleased for you and your friend that your minister, Jill,
thinks you are stars of the congregation. That must be a great comfort to
you both; and I am sure that you will find life more rewarding as time
progresses.
However, I don't see that it has anything to do with the strange case of
Richard Dillon, or with me. I have stopped responding to your emails; and I
am answering you now because of your public accusation of shameful behaviour
and point-scoring.
You might like to read John 8: 3-12 as an additional stimulus to
understanding from a Christian viewpoint.
Richard Dillon has, on this list, applauded the murder of Iraquis as
necessary, and as USA's right. He has said that USAmerican lives are worth
more than other lives. He has abused and even threatened those who argue
with him.
I think one could make an argument that this somewhat exceeds your
characterisation of a man who holds views with which you disagree. It is, I
believe, at odds with your own beliefs. You are of course free to welcome
him as the neighbour you love as yourself. But please count me out though I
am sure his home movies portray a warm human being.
As the number who have died in Iraq begins to exceed perhaps 100, 000; and
just after the reelection of the responsible usurper and murderer whom
Richard Dillon has praised unreservedly, silence on the matter whilst
posting on another to do with mortal danger may legitimately be taken as an
indication that he, RD, has not changed his mind; and that he remains,
therefore, an advocate of mass murder when it suits the political aims you
suggest we overlook.
I do not know whether or not his message regarding Arni was well meant; but
I don't see what that has to do with anything. I did not actually question
his sincerity. You raised the matter.
Nor do I see what his support or otherwise for "avant-garde poets" has to do
with it.
He may or may not be sincere. I am more interested in his sanity and
consistency. While I have been writing this, a further 30 have been reported
murdered by the supposed vote of RD and others. No prayers for their souls
from RD yet.
All I did was to put together 2 things: his expressed concern for Arni and
his expressed racist contempt and hatred of large parts of the world; and,
more distantly, his implicit adherence to Christianity, which repudiates the
taking of life, and his repeated support of war crime as a furtherance of
his racist views.
I did not draw conclusions. I left that for you. You made the connection and
your response rather makes some of my potential points for me.
I am sick of self-declared Christians yelling shame and other things at the
rest of us to defend the indefensible. Please stop.
Finally, if Richard Dillon wanted to send a message to Arni's family, he
didn't need to post it here for that. The information is available to you
even if those doors are shut to him.
You usurped the list-owner; and chaos will soon follow if we do that.
As to your innocence: Why would RD not post himself if his voice was wanted?
Of course one sometimes takes it on oneself to post materials; but you might
have known that this was an occasion not to exercise your judgement. In *my
judgement you got it wrong. And your response to me is out of order
L
PS Please, please, do us all a favour and don't respond
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