JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for UTSG Archives


UTSG Archives

UTSG Archives


UTSG@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

UTSG Home

UTSG Home

UTSG  2004

UTSG 2004

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Tram vs guided bus

From:

Anzir Boodoo <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Anzir Boodoo <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 7 Aug 2004 02:00:49 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (103 lines)

Dave,
On Friday, Aug 6, 2004, at 11:19 Europe/London, [log in to unmask] wrote:

> The cost of the former 100-150% more than a guided bus of equivalent
> capacity is tempting some authorities to consider this as a more 
> flexible, less
> costly option for on-street and reserved track running.  2-wheel road 
> users  also
> view this with delight - as they no longer have rais to contend with, 
> and
> equally ther are less likely to ber claims on the scale of Roe vs 
> Supertram and
> others, which accompanies 2 reported cyclist deaths on the Sheffield  
> system
>
> With the IVECO (Renault) CIVIS coming to Manchester for 10 days to 
> show a
> typical on-street vehicle, it might be opportune to ask after any  
> literature or
> other material to discuss the pros anbd cons between tram and  pseudo 
> tram.
> Also out for consultation is a major on-street proposal for W  London 
> where
> the 40m 300 passenger vehicles are the biggest allowed but are  
> actually longer
> than the equivalent capacity of buses, and pronmise major  upheavals 
> in moving
> services and track construction.

There are various studies, and the LRTA (Light Rail Transit 
Association) have a range of small papers on the subject, albeit from 
something of a biased perspective.

Almost everything I've read comes to pretty much the same conclusions:

Guided bus is cheaper, primarily because track is only provided where 
it is needed to overcome traffic problems (as in the schemes in Leeds 
and Bradford, where you will notice a. that track is not provided along 
the whole length of the route, and b. that there are differing amounts 
in different places townbound and outbound)

Total track laying costs for both are in the region of £1 million per 
km, both need utility diversions and the concrete tracks are laid to a 
much higher standard than normal road, need approx 50cm "margin" 
between them and the road, and apparently are classified as "railways".

Vehicle costs for guided bus are much lower, and in a scheme like East 
Leeds / elite can be offset by the fact you are often replacing life 
expired buses anyway. Typical costs are climed in the region of 20-30% 
higher than a normal bus, or something around £120,000 for a single 
deck vehicle. On the other hand, Civis is rumoured to cost around 
£700,000 per vehicle, and trams are typically over £1 million each 
(though with much larger passenger capacity, of course)

Only light rail is shown to have created significant modal shift from 
the car, while guided bus tends to abstract more from other 
conventional bus services. However, there are still strong upward 
trends in passenger numbers (reportedly over 10% per annum growth on 
Leeds Scott Hall Road against decline in the rest of the city, though 
growing road congestion is changing the pattern and Scott Hall Road 
services are now double the frequency they were 4 years ago when I used 
to live up there).

In addition, both Leeds York Road / elite and Bradford Manchester Road 
schemes have bus stops provided on street as well as in the guideways, 
as on roads also served by interurban buses, often from different 
operators, it can be difficult to guarantee availability of guided 
buses and trained drivers. In addition, express services don't use the 
guideways as they get held up behind slower "town" services. Giles 
Fearnley of Yorkshire Coastliner (who run on York Road) has offered 
this explanation as to why his buses aren't fitted with guidewheels. In 
addition, the four miles or so of the entire York Road scheme 
(including both guideway, bus lanes and running with traffic) are only 
a small part of the route for services between Leeds, Scarborough and 
Whitby.

Despite the success of the York Road / elite scheme in Leeds, there are 
still serious shortcomings that have worked in favour of those 
promoting the Supertram system:

Guided busway in a pedestrian area is impossible, and keeping cars out 
of the bus only areas in Leeds is proving difficult at the moment.

Guided busway does not offer the security of route that a light rail, 
with a fixed track does. Indeed the Scott Hall Road services have 
changed several times in the last 10 years. Granted , that can also be 
stated as an advantage, and over the core guided section the route 
doesn't change.

Ride at 30mph on a guided busway is not always comfortable for standing 
passengers, especially the "jolt" where the bus changes from normal to 
guided operation.

I'm not against guided bus, it's just that I think light rail is a more 
practical proposition for big cities, but guided bus is more suitable 
for corridors where there is a very diverse range of origins.

By the way, when is the Civis in Manchester, and will it be 
demonstrated in use?
-- 
Anzir Boodoo MRes MILT Aff. IRO
transcience, Leeds Innovation Centre, 103 Clarendon Road, LEEDS LS2 9DF

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

May 2024
April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager