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Subject: VICTORIA Digest - 18 Aug 2004 to 19 Aug 2004 (#2004-72)
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Date: Fri, August 20, 2004 6:00 am
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There are 17 messages totalling 597 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Introduction + Film/Entertainment Query (13)
2. The Victorians' conversational English (was: The Pearl_ and Victorian
sex...
3. _The Pearl_ and Victorian sexuality
4. Query: Regency & Victorian ideas of female equitation
5. The Victorians' conversational English (was: The Pearl_ and Victorian
sexual
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Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:51:23 +0100
From: Lee Jackson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Introduction + Film/Entertainment Query
Not sure about their academic value, and I'm not particularly obsessed
with Dickens, but in terms of enduring popular representations of the
Victorian period I'd be tempted to consider the likes of :
Oliver! (the 1968 musical - I don't know about the US, but this was shown
with incredible regularity on British television during the 1970s and
1980s and probably was main introduction to the Victorian era for many
children in the UK, I suspect)
A Christmas Carol (eg. 1951 'Scrooge' played by Alistair Sim; 1970
'Scrooge' the musical, Scrooge played by Albert Finney; 1992 'The Muppet
Christmas Carol' - Kermit et al., naturally)
I'm also a big fan of the 9 hour 1982 RSC adaptation of Nicholas Nickleby
- but not sure of the value of showing this on screen - see
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000AM73S/victoriandict-21/
Also, obviously, a wide range to choose from in relation to Dracula; cf.
several episodes of 'Buffy' and 'Angel' (and doubtless other fantasy
shows) which feature (terrible) recreations of Victorian London.
And, of course, all the countless versions of Sherlock Holmes, Jekyll and
Hyde ... actually, I'd best quit while I'm ahead ...
Lee (resolutely low-brow)
www.victorianlondon.org
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 03:30:51 EDT
From: Susan Hoyle <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Introduction + Film/Entertainment Query
What fun!
For Gilbert & Sullivan, I would recommend Mike Leigh's film _Topsy Turvy_
-- it's a high-class biopic about the relationship between the two men
and about the production of The Mikado. I'm not a great G&S fan, but I
loved this film.
The two-film version of _Little Dorrit_, which I mentioned here recently,
is excellent.
I haven't seen it but there was a recent film of _Silas Marner_ with Ben
Kingsley which seems not to have been an embarrassment....
BBC productions of the Victorian classics are nearly always good value,
although as they run for several hours you may have to present them
differently from a feature film: in the last ten years or so there've
been _Middlemarch_ and _Vanity Fair_ for example, both gripping in their
way and fine adaptations (the _Middlemarch_ was almost as popular as the
Colin Firth _Pride and Prejudice_!). And there was a TV version of
_David Copperfield_ which was good fun (I remember Maggie Smith as Betsy
Trotwood with particular pleasure).
(Btw, I suspect some of your original texts are Edwardian rather than
Victorian -- but others here will be able to pronounce on that far more
reliably than I.)
Susan
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 06:30:35 +0100
From: Sharon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Introduction + Film/Entertainment Query
As far as the Gilbert and Sullivan goes, I can only really recommend Mike
Lee's excellent film "Topsy Turvey" which not only covers the creation and
staging of the Mikado, but gives a wonderful feel to the era - sumptuously
filmed.
Sharon Hodgson
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
******************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 00:20:18 -0700
From: Jack Kolb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Introduction + Film/Entertainment Query
Topsy-Turvy is an absolute necessity, and not just for Gilbert and Sullivan.
Jack Kolb
Dept. of English, UCLA
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:04:31 EDT
From: Stan Walker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Victorians' conversational English (was: The Pearl_ and
Victorian sex...
Hello all:
As Patrick Leary indicates, this is a rich topic for discussion. In the
spirit of furthering the inquiry, I'd like to offer the following
broadstroked and somewhat disconnected jottings:
Nineteenth-century attitudes toward speech would of course have been
shaped significantly by Romantic-era ideas about it -- e.g., Wordsworth's
discussion in the "Preface to the Lyrical Ballads," as well as the
centrality that the human voice (in the form of living eyewitness accounts
to the events of the recent past) plays in Scott's historical fiction, in
particular the early Scottish novels (which I talk about, if I may be
allowed a little horn-tooting, in a 2003 article in NCL, "A False Start
for the Classical-historical Novel: Lockhart's Valerius and the Limits of
Scott's Historicism"). Such ideas were in turn impacted by late
18th-century interest in ballads and the rustic, and by the linguistic
theories emerging from Germany, e.g., in Herder's writings, which made
speech a primary element in the historical development of individual
cultures. (Linda Dowling discusses the latter connection fascinatingly in
the first chapter of her book, Language and Decadence in the Victorian Fin
de Si'ecle [Princeton UP, 1986].)
If the above suggests that a degree of informality might be expected to
carry the day, I suspect that Victorian formality in the public forum can
in large measure be viewed, loosely speaking, as a conservative response
to the the major historical "events" of the Romantic era -- the revolution
in France and Britain's rapid industrialization -- as well as to the
implications of 19th-century scientific advances in geology and biology
(Lyell, Darwin, etc.). In each case, an older hierarchical worldview
(associated with the Church and the classics, and romanticized in the
discourses of Medievalism) was threatened by corrosive forces associated
with rationalism, skepticism, materialism, etc. The maintenance of a
degree of formality in speech and general deportment, then, represented a
way of combatting these threatening trends. In a positive sense, it was a
way of, say, taking on Tennyson's injunction to "let the ape and tiger
die;" seen as a more defensive measure, it was a manifest means of
forestalling the decline and fall of the old order that these developments
seemed to signal -- a means of differentiating one's self, one's class,
one's nation, from democratization, racial degeneracy, etc. (Where a
drive toward informality manifests itself, I suspect, is in the widespread
hostility in Britain toward systematic thought and professionalization --
a direct response, of course, to the systematizing of the revolutionaries
in France, among other things.)
All of this is to say that for the educated classes at least, one's mode
of speech had historical and racial-national -- as well as class --
implications.
Cheers,
Stan Walker
Manhattan College
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:42:06 -0400
From: Leslie Ambedian <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: _The Pearl_ and Victorian sexuality
On 19 Aug 2004, at 01:00, Belinda Trim wrote:
> Try 'Governing Pleasures: Pornography and Social Change in England
1815-1914' by Lisa Z Sigel - worth a read for her very wide-ranging
coverage
> of Victorian porn (but for analysis I preferred Steven Marcus - already
mentioned by Michel Faber).
Although useful, I did find a number of small inaccuracies or
inconsistencies in "Governing Pleasures" (what, for example, is the 7-part
series "the Social Progress of the Century"? Is this Hotten's "Library
Illustrative of Social Progress"?). I'm also not sure that Sacher-Masoch
can be described as a pornographer, at least without some explanation of
the choice of term.
I've just picked up (and not yet read) Ellen Bayuk Rosenman's
"Unauthorized Pleasures: Accounts of Victorian Erotic Experience"
(Cornell 2003). It doesn't deal with "The Pearl," but may prove useful for
background info.
And for an entirely non-academic but amusing take on Victorian
sexuality, you might try the "Victorian Sex Cry Generator", found at
http://www.hootisland.com/stuff/victorian.html :)
-Leslie
***
Leslie Ambedian
[log in to unmask]
http://www.wiznet.ca/~ambedian/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:07:47 -0500
From: "Phegley, Jennifer" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Introduction + Film/Entertainment Query
While it might stir up a bit of controversy (for nudity, particularly a =
brief shot of full frontal male nudity), my favorite film representation =
of the Victorian period is "Angels and Insects," based on A.S. Byatt's =
novella "Morpho Eugenia." It covers pretty much every important =
Victorian issue you can think of and it is arfully done. The visual =
connections between insects and humans beautifully capture Byatt's =
intentions. And Kristin Scott Thomas is brilliant in it. I show it =
(or clips from it) frequently and my students adore it--of course we =
always read the novella along with it.
Best,
Jennifer
Jennifer Phegley
Department of English
University of Missouri-Kansas City
106 Cockefair Hall
5100 Rockhill Road
Kansas City, MO 64110-2499
[log in to unmask]
> ----------
> From: VICTORIA 19th-Century British Culture & Society on behalf
of =
Elisa E. Beshero-Bondar
> Reply To: VICTORIA 19th-Century British Culture & Society
> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 7:05 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Introduction + Film/Entertainment Query
>=20
> Greetings, all!
>=20
> I have been lurking on the list for a couple of weeks now, and have =
decided
> it's high time I made my introduction.
>=20
> This month I am new and green in a number of ways: I am new to the
Victoria list as well as to my new school, the University of =
Pittsburgh at
> Greensburg (UPG), where I'm the just-hired asst. prof. of 19th c. =
English
> literature. I'm a Romanticist by
> trade, but I have long loved and taught Victorian literature.
>=20
> This year I'm going to have to be more of a Victorianist than ever =
before
> because my campus is holding an academic festival focused on the
Victorians, and I've been recruited for the planning committee.
> I have been hungrily absorbing your comments on films so far, because =
I'm
> about to propose a film series on the Victorians.
>=20
> UPG's academic festival (called "La Cultura") is a year-long series of
events held for students and the local community.
> For this year of Victoriana, the main events will be a few keynote =
speakers
> and a big Victorian banquet in the spring.
> But beginning this fall, many of us are coming up with events and
activities to involve the students.
>=20
> I have come up with a list of films I'm considering, as well as some
student-centered
> entertainment ideas. I wonder if any of you have suggestions to add to =
or
> modify my lists below?
>=20
> 1. Film Series: (Note: I'm trying to come up with films that are
representative of the era as well as entertaining for non-English =
majors):
>=20
> literary adaptations;
> An Ideal Husband, and/or The Importance of Being Earnest
> That 1991 version of Great Expectations?
> My Fair Lady
> The Man Who Would Be King
> A Passage to India
> Around the World in 80 Days
> Wuthering Heights (any good versions out there? Should I consider the =
old
> Lawrence Olivier version?)
> Jane Eyre (but I've never seen a production of this that I'm happy =
with)
>=20
> Gilbert and Sullivan: (Can anyone recommend productions worth seeking =
out?
> How do I find them?)
>=20
> Recent productions:
> Four Feathers
> Zulu
> Titanic(?)--even though it's not Victorian, I'm thinking it will be a
popular attraction and somewhat representative of class/gender issues, =
etc.
>=20
>=20
> TV series (to show in excerpts or perhaps in full):
> Manor House
> The Forsythe Saga
> The Way We Live Now
>=20
>=20
> 2. Entertainment possibilities (from least to most complex):
>=20
> --A proper afternoon tea
> --A Victorian House Party (to be held in one of the academic village
dorms), w/ card games, mock seances, possibly a short theatrical =
event?...
> --A student Victorian fair--contents up to them, but involving the =
above
> activities, music
> --a Victorian ball--complete with giddy waltzes, dancing lessons, =
costume
> prep/rental, dance partner cards, etc. (I'm a little concerned that =
the
> students would find this dull, and that this would be a nightmare to>=20
organize, but perhaps it's worth proposing...)
>=20
>=20
> Thanks for any feedback (on or off list)!
>=20
> Sincerely,
>=20
> Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD
> Assistant Professor of English
> University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg
>=20
> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>=20
> Address:
> University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg
> Faculty Office Building 122
> 1150 Mount Pleasant Road
> Greensburg, PA 15601-5898
>=20
>=20
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 10:35:46 -0400
From: Maria <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Introduction + Film/Entertainment Query
...my favorite film representation of the Victorian period
is "Angels and Insects," based on A.S. Byatt's novella "Morpho Eugenia."
It covers pretty much every important Victorian issue you can think of and
it is arfully done. The visual connections between insects and humans
beautifully capture Byatt's intentions...
Best,
Jennifer
==============================
One of the shots that has stayed with me from this is of Mark Rylance
watching Scott Thomas draw, his eye (and ours) directed to the black hair
bracelet she wears. As a good Bronteite, my mind always flashes instantly
to the hair bracelets of Emily and Anne occasionally on exhibit at the
Parsonage and I am liable to get a little sting in my eye then.
Maria
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 10:58:29 -0300
From: Rohan Maitzen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Introduction + Film/Entertainment Query
I would think both "Possession" and "Angels and Insects" would be of
interest for a Victorian-themed film festival. Although certainly in the
case of "Posession" I thought the film version was something of a
disappointment considered as an adaptation of Byatt's novel, both are good
opportunities to discuss/display what we do with and think about the
Victorians today. And am I remembering right that "Angels and Insects"
was filmed on the estate where George Eliot's father worked as a manager?
Rohan Maitzen
Dalhousie University
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:39:49 -0400
From: David Latane <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Introduction + Film/Entertainment Query
There are DVDs of the BBC Gilbert & Sullivan productions from the 1970s
(introduced by that old Savoyard Vincent Price). A number of these were
recently available remaindered through Berkshire Record Outlet.
David Latane
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:18:31 -0700
From: Sheldon Goldfarb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Introduction + Film/Entertainment Query
For an entertaining presentation of the differences between the Victorian
era and the modern age, there's the old Malcolm McDowell film, Time after
Time, in which H.G. Wells (McDowell) uses a real time machine to travel to
San Francisco in 1979.
No doubt it was just playing on stereotyped notions of the Victorians, but
I remember it ringing true to my younger and pre-scholarly mind.
One scene I remember has Wells-McDowell, out of cash, trying to pawn his
watch. The pawnbroker is suspicious and asks if it is hot (a term Wells
of course doesn't understand). When the pawnbroker explains himself and
demands ID to prove that the watch is his, Wells says huffily, "On my word
as a gentleman ..."
It seems to me there was a film with a similar premise (Victorian
gentleman transported to modern America) just a couple of years ago, but
it has stayed with me so little that I cannot even recall its name.
Sheldon Goldfarb
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:24:36 -0500
From: "Felluga, Dino" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Introduction + Film/Entertainment Query
For an excellent critical take on all these examples of cinematic =
Victoriana (including the McDowell film), I strongly recommend Garrett =
Stewart's "Film's Victorian Retrofit," _Victorian Studies_ 38 (Winter =
1995): 153-98. The article may provide fodder for thinking about how to =
teach these works. =20
Be well!
Dino F. Felluga
[log in to unmask]
> ----------
> From: Sheldon Goldfarb
>=20
> For an entertaining presentation of the differences between the =
Victorian era and the modern age, there's the old Malcolm McDowell film, =
Time after Time
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:04:31 -0400
From: Nancy Weyant <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Introduction + Film/Entertainment Query
The BBC film adaptation of Gaskell's Wives and Daughters is one that you
should screen as a possible candidate for your "TV Series". It is readily
available in VHS and DVD.
Nancy S. Weyant
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:11:41 -0400
From: Kris Tetens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Introduction + Film/Entertainment Query
For those of us in the U.S., the most efficient way to obtain BBC-produced
videos is online at http://www.bbcamericashop.com/. I have found prices
there to be very competitive with other online sources (amazon.com,
facets.org)...and of course the selection is wider.
Browsing the site reminded me of another excellent BBC miniseries,
"Tipping the Velvet," which although not as good as the spirited,
wonderful book by Sarah Waters, nevertheless manages to evoke the
Victorian underworld and the gilded surface of the music hall. Its frank
depiction of lesbianism, however, might make it a controversial pick.
Too bad the film adaptation of Michel Faber's "The Crimson Petal and the
White" won't be available in time! (Perhaps Mr. Faber would be willing to
update us on this?) And Mira Nair's "Vanity Fair" is released in a couple
of weeks (like most of VICTORIA, I'm eagerly looking forward to Sheldon
Goldfarb's review!)
On a side note, a film series is one thing...but I'm wondering how much
events like the one contemplated at Pittsburgh--Greensburg perpetuate
stereotypes of the Victorian period. Are pseudo afternoon teas, house
parties, fairs, and balls the best way to provoke students into wanting to
know more about an era we all know was much less pretty than that? To
balance things out, why not have a workhouse or re-creation of a Seven
Dials or East End slum? Or a starving unemployed dock worker wandering
around? I ask that facetiously, but why not start telling students that
life is (was) complicated and help them explore the ways in which the
Victorian legacy continues to shape our world, both for better and worse?
Or is that asking too much of today's students?
Kristan Tetens
Michigan State University
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 18:35:33 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Query: Regency & Victorian ideas of female equitation
Hello,
I've reached a sticking point in my dissertation and was hoping for some
assistance. While there are a number of works available on female
equestrians mid-century on, I'm finding very little on specifically
Regency topics. A rich context of riding manuals fill out chapters on
Eliot & Ouida--but I'm finding little on the Regency. In particular, I'm
working on Mansfield Park and its film adaptations. Donna Landry has an
excellent essay on Riding in Mansfield Park--but it does not address this
specific question and relies on contextual evidence from the 1850s. I know
this is slightly off topic, but if anyone has any suggestions, they would
be greatly appreciated. Moreover, if there are some good generals
articles addressing this question without specific reference to
equitation, I would appreciate those references as well.
Thanks very much,
Angela Bryant Hofstetter
Butler University
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 18:50:38 EDT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Victorians' conversational English (was: The Pearl_ and
Victorian sexual
In a message dated 8/18/2004 10:03:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Robert Lapides wrote, a propos of Walter's 'My Secret Life':
>
> > Also, I was very surprised that the narrator and everyone else in the
book speaks more or less as we do today, in casual conversational
English that
> no
> > respectable novelist yet used in his or her writing. Has anyone written
> about
> > this? It definitely puts a different light on the prose styles we
> associate with
> > the Victorians.
>
Seems to me many respectable Victorian novels contain "casual
conversational English," though of course many famous ones (say, _Jane
Eyre_) have entirely unbelievable dialogue. Or am I just so used to
Victorian diction that I don't hear the dialogue as stilted any longer?
Helen Schinske
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:45:18 EDT
From: Robert Lapides <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Introduction + Film/Entertainment Query
Kristan Tetens writes, "Are pseudo afternoon teas, house parties,
fairs, and balls the best way to provoke students into wanting to know
more about an era we all know was much less pretty than that? To balance
things out, why not have a workhouse or re-creation of a Seven Dials or
East End slum? Or a starving unemployed dock worker wandering around?"
I'm glad this point has been made. It was a terrible time in so many
ways, not least because of the complacency of the bourgeoisie. And I've
been regretting that my post about "My Secret Life" didn't note how
wretchedly a great many of the women in the book were treated by Walter,
because they were poor and without a man's protection. "The Pearl" and
other Victorian pornography are all so upbeat and without pain, but "My
Secret Life" makes a reader wince over and over again. It's a shame its
too sexually graphic to assign to students.
Bob Lapides
CUNY
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
End of VICTORIA Digest - 18 Aug 2004 to 19 Aug 2004 (#2004-72)
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