Dear colleagues
This is a discussion which does not seem to have a possible
positive outcome, precisely as the conflict between Israel and the
Palestinians.
It is a fact that Israel has been accepted as participant in the EU
research cooperation. This does not make Israel a European country.
If the EU would give Israel's neighbours the same rights to participate
in research as it gives Israel, this could have several positive effects. I
don't see how it could harm the Palestinians. And it would change
the present situation towards that envisaged by Hilary Rose.
Finally, I must emphasize that this is purely my personal view, and
has nothing to do with ESA.
J P Roos
Date sent: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:30:05 +0000
Send reply to: Hilary Rose <[log in to unmask]>
From: Hilary Rose <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Guggenheim’s proposal ?
To: [log in to unmask]
Dear All,
Kayhan Dewibas makes sense. One of the huge difficulties is that
many/most Palestinians regard themselves as part of the middle
east and
as not part of Europe. That many Israelis do see themselves as
'European' - and thus subscribe to ESA list - speaks of a narrative
which combined both a self proclaimed european colonialism and
also a
resurgence against the death camps. . How ever bloody that past of
the death camp past the future of Israel lies in a just peace with
Palestinians and recognition that she is a middle east country.
So if Europe is to mean anything ( other than propping up a colonial
past) the alleged European-ness of Israel must be questioned - not
least but not only for the sake of Israel. Any euro fantasy which
includes Israel and her Arab neighbours some of whom ( like israel
herself) don't make first base on the human right s issue is only Ok in
abstract rhetoric. I am hugely sad to see JP Roos giving word space
to
such nonsense.
Making nice fantasies is no substitute for grasping the desperate
struggle by Palestinian academics to keep higher education alive.
That
any do research which gets published international journals under
such
circumstances is amazing. How does JP Roos's collaborative ideals
match
up to the actuality where we have Birzeit academic s teaching their
students at the barriers created by the Israeli army.
Maybe it is time for ESA sociologists to pay their Palestinian
colleagues a formal visit, to check out directly what helps and what
doesn't help.
Yours
Hilary Rose
on 11/2/03 12:24 PM, kdelibas at [log in to unmask] wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I would like to comment on Michael Guggenheim’s proposal that is as he
> put:
>
> “Since Israel is considered to belong to "europe" and is allowed to
> participate in EU-funded programs, why not instead of boycotting
> Israel stop "boycotting" Israels neighbours? The idea would be to ask
> for participation of palestinian, egyptian, lebanese or turkish
> participation in these programs.” Sun, 26 Oct 2003
>
> It seems some of the members of this list like JP ROOS found it as a
> good, reasonable and fairer solution. But I have some doubts about the
> workability of this proposal.
>
> The first point is that Turkey as a candidate country for the full EU
> membership has been already taking part in the EU- funded programs
> from the January 2003 and will became a full participant from the
> beginning of 2004.
>
> Second point I would like to make is, as a Turkish academic who has
> also been following this process, I found the process of Turkish
> participation extremely slow. Turkey first signed the EEC-Turkish
> association agreement forty years ago in 1963, this agreement ratified
> Ankara Agreement in 1980. Then Turkish participation in the EU-funded
> programs allowed 23 years later, in 2003. The slowness of this
> process is rather discouraging.
>
> The third point is that, this kind of programs require years of
> preparations, organisation and negotiations. It means even the
> Israel’s Arab neighbours accepted to take part it will take years to
> come. Also every participant country has to contribute huge sums of
> money. I doubt any of these countries like Palestine can afford this
> financial burden. In other words the financial side is costly. As far
> as I remember Israel first joined EU-programs during the 4th Frame
> Program (FP4) but later had to withdrew because they were not ready
> organisationally and otherwise to full participate.
>
> Finally, if Guggenheim’s proposal works it would be a reasonable and
> fairer way forward: it wont punish Israeli colugos as well as will
> provide Palestinian, Egyptian or Lebanese academics greater
> opportunity to take part in EU-funden programs, however it seems to me
> this proposal wont be working for the reasons I expressed above. So we
> might need to consider some other alternatives.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Kayhan Delibas
>
>
> Bu Elektronik Posta Adnan Menderes
> Universitesi Serverlari tarafindan Virus taramasindan
> gecirilmistir. ADU Bilgi Islem Daire Baskanligi (
> www.ravantivirus.com.tr )
************************************************
J.P.Roos Professor of Social Policy
PB18 00014 The University of Helsinki Finland
Tel +3589 19124582, +35840 550 7417 (mobile)
Home Page: www.jproos.org
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