I must agree with Julie on this.
The full blurb from the LSE website gives us a better context for the BSc
ECONOMICS at the LSE:
Course requirement: A level (A2) Mathematics is required. A level Economics
is not essential. No other specific subjects are required at A level, but
we would prefer traditional academic subjects to subjects such as
Communication Studies, Accounting or Media Studies. We prefer candidates
not to offer Economics and Business Studies together
Usual standard offer: GCE A level: grades A A A one of which must be
Mathematics
International Baccalaureate: Mathematics at Higher level is required. Usual
standard offer is Diploma with 38 points including 6 6 6 at Higher level
Other qualifications are considered
Applications 2002: 2549
First year students 2002: 211
Let's also look at some of the course content; the first year includes a
pretty sophisticated introductory course on macro/microeconomics and also
requires to take mathematics courses which warrant a solid grasp of
calculus (at least to the level of Langrangian optimisation) in all cases
and a good grasp of linear algebra in some cases. The case for A-level
maths has just been made. Note that the LSE doesnt say that it will reject
those who apply with Business Studies. It simply states that it will prefer
those with Economics over Business Studies (without an explicit requirement
to have an Economics A-level). In view of the analytical demands placed on
students doing the introductory 1st year course in Economics, such a stance
is acceptable.
As has been indicated by others, the LSE can pick and choose (211
acceptances from 2549 applicants) on the basis of its perception of the
relative value of various A-Levels.
However, I would humbly suggest that the flaw in the LSE admissions policy
lies not in the Economics vs Business Studies debate but in the fact that
LSE seems to be demeaning Business Studies to below the status of
ALL "traditional" subjects, irrespective of how relevant they would be for
an Economics degree. Implicit in this is a bias (unintentional, I am sure)
against the State sector, which offers a proportionately greater number of
what the LSE lables as "non-traditional" subjects, such as Business Studies
and Accounting. In the context of an application for an Economics degree,
I would suggest that the combination of Mathematics, Business Studies and
a "traditional subject" would be much more suitable than Mathematics plus
two non-financial "traditional subjects" such as English and Geography?
Of course, all of this is inconsequential if the applicant fails to attain
her 3 A grades.
It is up to our profession to somehow elevate the status of Business
Studies in the eyes of the upper echelon of universities. Any suggestions?
On Mon, 9 Jun 2003 16:37:28 +0100, Julie Parton <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
><html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
><P><STRONG>I agree that it stinks. </STRONG> But when you are
an oversubscribed course in an oversubscribed institution you can specify
pretty much what you want. If LSE, Oxbridge etc specified Olympic
level tiddly-winks a new industry would promptly spring up to service
this "need".</P>
><P><STRONG>Perhaps we should all work harder to promote the academic
integrity of BUSINESS STUDIES and ACCOUNTING as well as ECONOMICS
</STRONG>rather than indulge in the type of nonsense we saw a couple of
years ago over establishing the pecking order .... I think we shoot
ourselves in both feet when we start this!!!</P></DIV>
><P>In the meantime, we have to give youngsters the ability to play
the current game (until the rules are made fairer), high-flying Y11
students with big aspirations need to be directed to check the entry
requirements of possible Uni Courses <STRONG>before</STRONG> they
start Y12 .... not in Y13 when they fill in their UCAS forms. Heads of
Sixth who do not do this are really letting down those people. You can not
expect most 16 year olds to plan in this detail so far ahead without a
prompt.<BR><BR>The annoying thing from the students point of view is that
what Uni's might perceive as "Bird-brain" subjects are often damn hard
work ..... when I see what some of our students have to do for Media
Studies and Psychology you realize that there is an awful lot of hard work
going on. I would love some of these people in their ivory towers to
actually spend some time in the much maligned "Bog standard comp" and see
the caliber of people they so readily turn down!</P>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive" color=#3300cc size=2>Having
said all that I have just persuaded my own 16 year old daughter that
Art at advanded vocational plus Media Studies and Psychology will give the
impression she is a bird-brain and I've persuaded her to shift from
Psychology to Geography! So maybe I'm a bit two faced as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive" color=#3300cc
size=2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive" color=#3300cc size=2>Julie
Parton</FONT></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>From: Duncan Williamson <[log in to unmask]>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: "Economics, business, and related subjects" <ECON-
[log in to unmask]>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>To: [log in to unmask]
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: Business Studies/Accounting
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 07:39:43 +0100
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Let me remind you of what the LSE says about studying
Economics at the LSE,
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>from my earlier post:
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>UCAS code: L101 BSc/Econ and UCAS code: L1V3 BSc/EcEcH and
UCAS code: L140
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>BSc/Ecomt
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Course requirement: A level (A2) Mathematics is required. A
level Economics
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>is not essential. No other specific subjects are required
at A level, but we
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>would prefer traditional academic subjects to subjects such
as Communication
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Studies, Accounting or Media Studies. We prefer candidates
not to offer
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Economics and Business Studies together
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>HYPERLINK
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>"http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/undergraduateProspectus2003-
2004/courses/Eco
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>nomics/L101.htm"http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/undergraduate
Prospectus2003-2
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>004/courses/Economics/L101.htm ++ ++
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>As far as Economics is concerned, they WILL accept business
studies since
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>their list of exclusions concerns only Communication
Studies, Accounting or
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Media Studies and the only caveat on business studies is
that it shouldn’t
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>be offered together with economics.
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>I really think the LSE’s own advice is clear enough: follow
the links I gave
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>earlier and you will resolve this issue quite easily …
unless of course the
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>LSE is contradicting itself on a case by case basis!
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Duncan Williamson
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>-----Original Message-----
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>From: Economics, business, and related subjects
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of Jenny Wales
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Sent: 09 June 2003 07:25
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>To: [log in to unmask]
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: Business Studies/Accounting
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Hi
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>The Economics dept at LSE will accept Nuffield Economics
and Business.
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Students have gone there to do Economics with this A level.
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Jenny
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>----- Original Message -----
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>From: HYPERLINK "mailto:[log in to unmask]"Duncan
Williamson
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>To: HYPERLINK
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>"mailto:[log in to unmask]"ECON-
BUSINESS-EDUCATORS@JISCM
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>AIL.AC.UK
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 6:59 AM
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: Business Studies/Accounting
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>I think the guidance on the LSE site is clear: they DO NOT
WANT accounting
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>and business studies A levels if you want to study business
or economics.
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>However, there is no such prescription for subjects such as
Geography,
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Anthropology, Government ... and lots more: just check
their web site.
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>The teacher at Abacus is repeating what the LSE has already
published and it
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>seems to me that the LSE is being very open and honest
about it even if we
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>don’t like it.
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Duncan Williamson
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>-----Original Message-----
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>From: Economics, business, and related subjects
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of david haynes
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Sent: 08 June 2003 22:56
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>To: [log in to unmask]
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: Business Studies/Accounting
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>I was told by a teacher at Abacus College in Oxford that
(quote):
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>"Students were turned down for LSE Accounting courses on
the grounds that
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>they were doing Accounting A level. This applied also to
students doing
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Business Studies. When the Principal of Abacus queried this
with LSE he was
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>told that Business Studies and Accounting were not
acceptable as A levels
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>for those particular courses applied for. I then phoned AQA
and LSE told AQA
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>the same thing and there is nothing they can do about it"
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Duncan Williamson <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>I went to the LSE site and this is what I found that seems
to bear out what
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>you’re saying, David; but do note that the prescription
seems to apply only
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>to the accounting/economics nexus and I hope the UCAS codes
clearly show
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>what the subjects of each degree are. Subject guidance is
not given for all
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>degrees.
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>UCAS code: NN34 BSc/AccFin
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Course requirement: A minimum GCSE pass at grade B or
better in Mathematics
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>is expected. No specific subjects are required at A level;
we would prefer
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>traditional academic subjects to subjects such as Business
Studies or
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Accounting
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>HYPERLINK
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>"http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/undergraduateProspectus2003-
2004/courses/Acc
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>ounting_and_Finance/NN34.htm"http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/
undergraduatePro
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>spectus2003-2004/courses/Accounting_and_Finance/NN34.htm
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>UCAS code: L101 BSc/Econ and UCAS code: L1V3 BSc/EcEcH and
UCAS code: L140
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>BSc/Ecomt
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Course requirement: A level (A2) Mathematics is required. A
level Economics
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>is not essential. No other specific subjects are required
at A level, but we
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>would prefer traditional academic subjects to subjects such
as Communication
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Studies, Accounting or Media Studies. We prefer candidates
not to offer
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Economics and Business Studies together
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>HYPERLINK
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>"http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/undergraduateProspectus2003-
2004/courses/Eco
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>nomics/L101.htm"http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/undergraduate
Prospectus2003-2
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>004/courses/Economics/L101.htm ++ ++
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>UCAS code: L702 BA/Geog
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Course requirement: GCSE pass at grade C or better in
Mathematics is
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>expected
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>HYPERLINK
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>"http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/undergraduateProspectus2003-
2004/courses/Geo
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>graphy/L702.htm"http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/undergraduate
Prospectus2003-2
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>004/courses/Geography/L702.htm
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>UCAS code: BA L601 BA/SocAnth
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>HYPERLINK
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>"http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/undergraduateProspectus2003-
2004/courses/Ant
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>hropology/L601.htm"http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/undergradu
ateProspectus200
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>3-2004/courses/Anthropology/L601.htm
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>UCAS code: L230 BSc/Gov
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Course requirement: GCSE pass at grade C or better in
Mathematics is
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>expected
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>HYPERLINK
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>"http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/undergraduateProspectus2003-
2004/courses/Gov
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>ernment/L230.htm"http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/undergraduat
eProspectus2003-
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>2004/courses/Government/L230.htm
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Duncan Williamson
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>-----Original Message-----
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>From: Economics, business, and related subjects
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>[mmailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of david haynes
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Sent: 08 June 2003 20:20
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>To: [log in to unmask]
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Subject: Business Studies/Accounting
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Interesting that LSE have told applicants that:
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>> 'we do not accept Accountancy and Business Studies as full
A levels'.
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>Is this the thin edge of the wedge?
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>>
><DIV></DIV>
><DIV></DIV>> _____
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