If my memory serves me correctly, author Colin Wilson discusses the
Thugee cult fairly extensively in his 1972 book "Order of Assassins: The
Psychology of Murder."
I also notice that Goggle has over 900 responses to typing in the word
Thugee.
Diana Robinson
-----Original Message-----
From: To exchange information and views on the life and work of Rudyard
Kipling [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Automatic
digest processor
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 7:12 PM
To: Recipients of RUDYARD-KIPLING digests
Subject: RUDYARD-KIPLING Digest - 15 Apr 2003 to 16 Apr 2003 (#2003-66)
There are 4 messages totalling 228 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Kipling & Poisin/ absence
2. Kipling, Kerchiefs and Kleopatros [was Kipling and a sect which
uses
poison] (2)
3. Film about Thuggee
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:34:25 +0100
From: Jane Keskar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Kipling & Poisin/ absence
Dear All,
Many thanks for your full and fascinating replies on the above. I am
away
until the weekend. Happy Easter.
Jane
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:46:31 +0200
From: "Dick A. van den Toorn" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Kipling, Kerchiefs and Kleopatros [was Kipling and a sect which
uses poison]
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Good day to all!
The original question was:
A correspondent asks if Kipling wrote about the Thugs, or another sect =
which uses poison.
As I understand it Mr. Michael Jefferson and Mr. Brian Payne advised us
=
that RK did write about Thugs, they wrote resp.
MF:=20
RK displays his esoteric knowledge of the contemporary religions,cults,
=
and their nuances (of his India) through his description of Strickland
=
(Miss Youghal's Sais - PTFTH, see also The Return of Imray and The Mark
=
of the Beast).
BP:=20
Kipling mentions the Thugs, in a curious mixture of religious, racial =
and
occupational types in the poem "The Masque of Plenty". He spells the =
word as
thag and in the glossary of my oldest edition of Departmental Ditties
(Thacker, London, 9th Ed. 1897) this is explained as "a highway robber,
garotter".=20
Today, however, Mr. Alastair Wilson told us:
We seem to have wandered a bit from the original question. My reading =
is that we don't now of any such reference!
In case of using also _poison_ by the 'Fraternity of Thugs' is the =
problem, I would like to follow up Mr. Wilson's lead of the 13th inst.:
I think that you will find that the Thugs used a folded kerchief to =
throttle their victims (it's a long time since I read The Deceivers) =
rather than poison, tho' I have it in mind that they may have used =
narcotics to render their victims comatose before throttling them.=20
I'am offering you the 'Cleopatra Connection'.
Thugs were worshippers of the Hindu goddess KALI strangling their =
victims in the name of religion (and robbery provided the means of =
livelihood) as Michael Jefferson has already told us. KALI is the cult =
name of DURGA, SIVA's wife. As KALI she has red eyes, four arms, matted
=
hair, huge, fang-like teeth and a protruding tongue that drips with =
blood. She wears earrings of corpses and a necklace of skulls, and her =
body is girdled with serpents and asps. And we know from Cleopatra what
=
asps, any many other serpents, are kept for: producing poison. Posion or
=
narcotics, what's the difference? IMO _we_ did not wander that far from
=
the original question.
Whishing you all a HAPPY EASTER,
Dick.
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#008080>Good day
to=20
all!</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
color=3D#008080></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#008080>The original
=
question=20
was:</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">A correspondent asks if =
Kipling wrote=20
about the Thugs, or another sect which uses =
poison.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#008080><STRONG>As I =
understand it Mr.=20
Michael Jefferson and Mr. Brian Payne advised us that RK did write about
=
Thugs,=20
they wrote resp.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#008080><STRONG>MF: =
</STRONG>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><STRONG>RK displays his esoteric =
knowledge=20
of the contemporary religions,cults, and their nuances =
(of his=20
India) through his description of Strickland (Miss Youghal's Sais -
=
PTFTH,=20
see also The Return of Imray and The Mark of the =
Beast).</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DGaramond><STRONG>BP: </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><STRONG>Kipling mentions the Thugs, in a =
curious=20
mixture of religious, racial and<BR>occupational types in the poem "The
=
Masque=20
of Plenty". He spells the word as<BR>thag and in the glossary of my =
oldest=20
edition of Departmental Ditties<BR>(Thacker, London, 9th Ed. 1897) this
=
is=20
explained as "a highway robber,<BR>garotter". </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Today, however, Mr. Alastair Wilson told us:</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><STRONG>We seem to have wandered a bit from =
the=20
original question. My reading is that we don't now of any such=20
reference!</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#008080>In case
=
of=20
using also _poison_ by the 'Fraternity of Thugs' is the =
problem, I=20
would like to follow up Mr. Wilson's lead of the 13th=20
inst.:</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><STRONG>I think that you will find =
that the=20
Thugs used a folded kerchief to throttle their victims (it's a long time
=
since I=20
read <EM>The Deceivers</EM>) rather than poison, tho' I have it in mind
=
that=20
they may have used narcotics to render their victims comatose before =
throttling=20
them. </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
color=3D#008080></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#008080>I'am =
offering you the=20
'Cleopatra Connection'.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#008080>Thugs were =
worshippers=20
of the Hindu goddess KALI strangling their victims in the name of =
religion (and=20
robbery provided the means of livelihood) as Michael Jefferson has =
already told=20
us. KALI is the cult name of DURGA, SIVA's wife. As KALI she has red =
eyes, four=20
arms, matted hair, huge, fang-like teeth and a protruding tongue that =
drips with=20
blood. She wears earrings of corpses and a necklace of skulls, and her =
body is=20
girdled with serpents and asps. </FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#008080>And we know from Cleopatra what
=
asps, any=20
many other serpents, are kept for: producing poison. Posion or =
narcotics, what's=20
the difference? </FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New
Roman"=20
color=3D#008080>IMO _we_ did not wander that far from the original=20
question.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
color=3D#008080></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#008080>Whishing you
=
all a HAPPY=20
EASTER,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
color=3D#008080>Dick.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
color=3D#008080></FONT></STRONG> </DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:00:41 +0100
From: Mary Seymour <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Kipling, Kerchiefs and Kleopatros [was Kipling and a sect
which uses poison]
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IIRC the item used by the Thuggs for strangulation was a white silk
hankerchief in one corner of which a small coin had been tied to give it
weight. By holding the kerchief by the opposite corner to the weight and
whipping it round the throat of the victim, the victim would, if the
Thugg were skilled, be throttled before s/he could utter a sound. The
weight gave impetus to the swing of the kerchief. It was the Thugg's
pride to effect the killing so silently that other people in the party
would not be aware that anything untoward had happened until it was too
late.
Also, I believe a feature film about Captain Sleeman and the overthrow
of the Thuggs was shown on (British) TV a few years back - I may have a
video of it somewhere.
I have also heard it said that the introduction of the telegraph played
its part in the elimination of Thuggee. Travellers were now able to let
their friends and colleagues know exactly where they were and this cut
down the time during which they might disappear. It meant that search
parties could be sent out promptly and the Thuggs had far less chance of
getting away undetected.
Sorry I cannot give chapter-and-verse citations for the above - I am
relying on memory.
Mary Seymour.
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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:39:56 +0100
From: Mary Seymour <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Film about Thuggee
The film about the Thuggs was
"The Deceivers" (1988) A Merchant-Ivory production starring Pierce
Brosnan as "William Savage" a fictionalised version of Captain Sleeman's
exploits.
MS
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End of RUDYARD-KIPLING Digest - 15 Apr 2003 to 16 Apr 2003 (#2003-66)
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