medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Dennis,
Two brief comments/questions:
1) Did Jesus not also say that unless a man be born
again of *water* and the Spirit... and would this not
be the last word on the subject?
2) Truly a question, not an argument: how do we know
the _Didache_ wasn't known in the MA and when did it
become known?
All best,
MG
--- Dennis Martin <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval
> religion and culture
>
> The requirement of water is explict already in the
> _Didache_ (possibly 1st century), which says running
> water is preferred but if not available, standing
> water will do--this in a region where water was a
> bit scarcer than Norway!
>
> The Didache, of course, was not known to medieval
> Christians, but it indicates that the insistence on
> water goes all the way back. In Acts 8, the
> Ethiopian proto-convert on a route through the Negev
> says, "Here's some water, what's to keep me from
> being baptized." He seems to assume that water is
> essential. The account of John the Baptist in the
> Gospels emphasizes that he was baptizing at a
> certain place because there was enough water there.
>
> Others can comment on the precedents in Jewish
> proselyte baptisms--presumably water was the only
> option but I can't speak to that.
>
> I would think that this would explain why the
> medieval popes mentioned seem not to have wasted
> much time even considering the alternatives.
>
> Dennis Martin
>
> >>> [log in to unmask] 04/13/03 03:44PM >>>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval
> religion and culture
>
> >
> >
> >I have come across a number of references to the
> practice of rich children being baptised with milk
> (and on occasion with beer!).
> >
>
> In 1241, the archbishop of Trondheim inquired on the
> validity of baptism
> with beer "due to the scarcity of water" (!) but the
> pope declined. Cf.
> Martin Kaufhold, Eine norwegische Biertaufe:
> Probleme liturgischer
> Normierung im 13. Jahrhundert, in: Zeitschrift f.
> Rechtsgeschichte 114,
> kanonistische Abteilung 83 (1997) 362---376; the
> papal letter is
> Potthast 11048.
>
> In 1206 an earlier archbishop of Trondheim had asked
> the same regarding
> the use of saliva, "propter aque penuriam" as well.
> The pope insisted on
> water. The answer was included in the Liber Extra
> (Migne, Patrologia
> Latina 215, 812 Nr. 5 = Potthast 2696; X 3. 42. 5)
>
> regards, h.w.
>
>
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