Hello Susanne. Thank you for your e-mail. n relation to my bit I would say
that your proposal is that the market should value human beings and money is
the way in which we standardise our appreciation/respect/freedom from
oppression, etc to disabled people/other people under discrimination. You
may be right to ask that type of 'equality' at this point in time so we can
measure 'justice' in capitalist forms. there is no easy way in which we can
escape from our time. However, at a moral level your argument is
inconsistent. Money does not make people equal. The hope of liberalism was
that capitalism would end discrimination and would make people happy,
unpoor, end wars (ha!), etc,etc.The utopia of the bourgeoisie was that they
would be better than the feudal lords.They are not, otherwise oppressed US
and UK proletarians would not be fighting Bush/Blair neo crusade, in the
same manner that poor soldiers fought in the middle ages against Islam!). It
should suffice to wander the streets of new York or the backyard of the only
superpower to realise that this was another strategy to s make sure that
people do not opposed their free disposal of their surplus value and the
rule of the few who are destroying our planet.I personally want a
qualitative change that would secure a long term global change in the world
structure. Not a change that would make disabled people eat more and
protest less, in rich societies.
In principle I agree for disabled people or any other people oppressed by
the global system to be considered/paid for their contribution to
society/world. However this should be balanced with the resources allocated
to research activities. Then I make a differentiation between a research of
a student, which would further understanding and knowledge and the work of a
researcher to win his/her prestige. You need to make a differentiation
otherwise, at a moral level, you may have win a small battle, but you would
have lost the war for a better place to live for the human race. Thanks
again for your thoughts, Andy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Susanne Berg" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 4:14 PM
Subject: advice and payment for time.
Hi all,
Alden wrote:
Have you thought about negotiating with employers regarding the provision of
paid time off for disabled employees to participate in research (research
which can be said to benefit the employer in some direct or indirect way)?
Why would I demand that somebody involved in production of for ex. cars
should pay for necessary components in my research production?
Alden then wrote:
isn't the problem here to do with the way in which all welfare benefits are
officially described as 'handouts' rather than 'social wages' - i.e.
perhaps, payment for social participation? This debate seems to go much
further than just disabled people, and should include all people who do not
work (and don't have comfortable unearned incomes from investments etc)
Yes it is, but the raised issue concerned payment for being research
subjects.
Sara on like subject:
It could also be suggested that arguing for payment implies that only paid
work is valuable? Context seems important. As a doctoral student I have to
pay to do my research, I receive no grant . Equally I happily participate in
any research that strikes me as interesting or useful.without even thinking
of payment as an issue. If corporations are using research to further their
own interests or something similar this feels different however Sarah.
I would not really consider my own non-payment as an argument for not paying
research subjects.
There surely is a difference between arguing about the right or wrong to pay
research subjects and the reality of no funding. I frequently do things for
free as a disabled person; and I ask people to participate without payment
when I do not have any funds for it - but I do include payment in project
budgets and argue for funds when I can.
And if I do not have funds (haven't succeeded getting them) I am probably
doing the same as the most of you. At the moment I am working on a project
doing interviews for internet radio. It has not money for payment for the
persons interviewed, so what I can do is give them copies of their
interviews and make sure they will get the programs on CD when they are
ready - if possible all programs and not just the one the participated in.
CD's are a cost I can draw from the budget and time to burn them is mine
alone.
Andy wrote:
Susane. you are probably right. However I would like to think that there is
moral analternative to a system that sell embrios, air, forest and clean
water.
So would I, but would you argue that you're changing the system by treating
people differently within the present system?
Timothy wrote:
In the past year or two, there have been grave questions raised about
bioethicists who are being paid (as consultants, not "employees") by a
particular pharmaceutical company also giving and "ethical blessing" so to
speak to that same firm.
At last year's American Society for Bioethics and Humanities conference I
attended one presentation where there was a very sharp exchange between one
presenter (who seemed to hold that being paid inevitably skewed one's
judgment) and an audience member, who identified herself as a paid
consultant of a pharmaceutical firm who felt precisely the opposite.
Ahhhh! So we should maybe ponder our own economic bonds. Which I personally
think would be a far more interesting subject to discuss - and ultimately a
far greater danger to the quality and usefulness of research.
I'm rambling.....
Susanne
----------------------------------------------------
Susanne Berg Institute on Independent Living
project coordinator www.independentliving.org
Luntmakargatan 86 A
113 51 Stockholm
Sweden
telephone/fax: +46 8 15 73 54
mobile phone: +46 705 15 73 56
e-mail home: [log in to unmask]
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www.independentliving.org/docs1/ilarsbrtls2001.html
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