Simon you have really missed the point about self definition
This is not about inventing petty grievances this is about real
discrimination and real conditions, you are taking it to ludicros extremes
I too need a computer, I have many problems regarding daily living and
communication. They arise because of things you do not understand because
you are not in my position, all I can ask is that if you want understanding
you try to understand. To explain why these difficulties occur would be to
introduce you to terms you are not familiar with perhaps such as executive
dysfuntion, sensory integration difficulties, semantic and pragmatic
language problems, sequencing problems (the ability to sort things into
there proper order) short term memory problems, the inability to understand
all that is said because the brain can't hold language for long enough to
process it in real time whilst trying to simultaneosly decode facial
expression and emotional content. The inability to properly and appropriatly
modulate ones voice and tone. The inability to cope with change because of
the difficulties of structuring an dperv=cieving the world.
All you see is the outward "able bodied appearance" and the outward show of
communication which is not achieved easily or at all on the same terms as
people whose brains have proceeded along a more "normal" path of development
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Disability-Research Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Simon Stevens
> Sent: 22 January 2003 18:28
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Something Positive?
>
>
> Andy,
>
> I think you have a big misunderstanding of the DDA. Dyslexia could be
> covered under the DDA. I could argue I have same problems because I have
> a speech impairment.
>
> My difficult is to what point does someone's claimed impairment because
> so individual that what are just taking the piss of accessibility. Could
> I argue I have no understanding of theft and can be taken to court?
> Could I argue I need the supermarket lights turned pink?
>
> My concern is some people with hidden impairment wave their label around
> as if they were passports to whatever you want. I have cerebreal palsy,
> I need people to have time to listen to me, a computer, personal care.
> What does this autism, ADHD, dyslexia mean? What changes does people
> want?
>
> Look, 99% of disabled people are not represented in society, we don't
> all need to reinvent the wheel to get our voiced heard. Physical
> Challenge was abused as a term and neurodiversity will be as people who
> like shopping will become retaildiverse!
>
> Many Thanks, Simon
>
> --
>
> Simon Stevens
> Managing Director, Enable Enterprises
> [log in to unmask]
>
> NEED INSTANT ADVICE?
> CALL 247 INSTANT ON 090 904 80000 (£1 PER MINUTE)
>
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> Fax: +44(0)870 133 2447
> IM: enableenterprises (Yahoo/AOL) simonenable (MSN) 155158793 (ICQ)
>
>
> Personal site: www.simonstevens.com
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>
> Join our FREE newsletter, send blank email to [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Disability-Research Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of big-hi2u
> Sent: 22 January 2003 16:35
> To:
> Subject: Re: Something Positive?
>
> hello again Simon
>
> I can now relate to where you are coming from! It was really worrying
> that
> we were not understanding each other correctly through this
> discussion/debate because I am very aware how committed you are to
> supporting "disabled people"
>
> Anyway your last e-mail as enabled me to build a pitcher of our
> different
> visions around this discussion such debate. So here goes, hope I don't
> put
> my foot in it! As that is the last thing I'm wanting to do.
>
> My view
>
> Our buildings are old in the UK and were not designed for disabled
> people
> therefore we have to get the architecture of this country in line with
> access for disabled people.
>
> Our laws are also not designed for disabled people before we need
> politicians to make changes that provide us the same access to life that
> other members of society have.
>
> So perhaps too our language wasn't designed for "disabled people" too
> this
> could explain for the never ending debate around the world on what is
> appropriate terminology for disabled people.
>
> The image I'm getting from Larry, is sort of 2 fold!
>
> Larry appears to me to be questioning that maybe present day use of
> language
> isn't easily flexible for describing disability in any shape or form.
> Therefore Larry is using his vigil thinking pattern (which is different
> to
> other people) to stretch the use of language to see whether there's a
> better
> way of voicing disability.
>
> That doesn't mean that others are necessary going to understand all want
> this difference. But Larry sees a difficulty with communication that he
> is
> trying to find a solution to.
>
> Second part is that, Larry like myself and many others have a
> neurological
> medical condition that consultants have used various names for. These
> names
> don't necessarily match the medical difference Larry may have therefore
> he
> with others are trying to create a heading/label that is more in tune
> with
> his difference.
>
> On that side I can understand and agree with to a degree!
>
> I'm thinking very differently in that I'm not looking for appropriate
> terminology for the future I'm looking for appropriate terminology to
> fit in
> with trying to get recognition and appropriate adaptations for people
> with
> hidden impairments to be able to have equal opportunities to participate
> in
> life.
>
> With reference to diagnosis and the social model. If someone has a very
> severe physical impairments but hasn't actually seen a doctor to have a
> diagnosis! Does that mean they are not disabled within social model?
>
> Many people have hidden impairments and are unaware of this difficulty
> this
> might seem hard to believe however its true. They can find themselves
> living in very unpleasant environment that people with physical
> impairments
> would not accept in this present day life.
>
> Mainstream schooling is here for all including disabled people.
> Providing
> your medical condition is known as a wheelchair user this is instantly
> recognised.
>
> However children who have AD/HD, AS, dyslexia and other neurological
> differences often can't get diagnosis there are very few facilities to
> obtain this in the UK in comparison to numbers who have this and the
> USA.
>
> So therefore a child is not disabled because there hasn't been a
> opportunity
> to see medical consultant to gain diagnosis. Because teachers, social
> workers and many other professionals are already biased thinking
> children
> are lazy and naughty! Children with neurological differences are being
> wrongly labelled as "naughty lazy children"!
>
> So these children are expelled from school with no rights to mainstream
> schooling that disabled people have.
>
> Much recognition and support is needed.
>
> The local supermarket by law has to be wheelchair accessible in UK,
> weather
> or not there are any wheelchair users in the locality this is still a
> must.
>
> The local super market doesn't have to be dyslexic friendly unless a
> customer actually requests this! Because of how dyslexic people have
> been
> treated it isn't easy to demand these rights. Second the very nature of
> disability may prevent many dyslexic people from establishing
> recognition
> for this difficulty within obtaining supermarket friendly for dyslexia.
> Ie
> if legal proceedings were started a supermarket could say that they
> never
> received this request if you are unable to read and write then it maybe
> more
> difficult to provide appropriate proof that you have informed local
> supermarket.
>
> So from my understanding of the disability discrimination at is its one
> law
> for some and another law for others. I have personally experienced some
> difficulties here myself with the disability rights commission.
>
> Therefore I've set-up the "hi2u for people with hidden impairments" web
> site
> to create a opportunity to voice the difficulties and needs people with
> hidden impairments have. To try and create better awareness perhaps
> hopefully finding ways of getting society to make appropriate changes
> that
> are needed.
>
> I used the term "hidden impairment" because I think that will fit in
> with
> present day framework of the "social model of disability. I also think
> that
> it will help bring those disabled members of the community together with
> the
> known disabled members of our community to understand each other and
> work
> together for goals that are in common.
>
> I personally think Larry's ideas are very valuable ideas but perhaps its
> not
> the ideal time to convince others Larry is probably 20 years ahead of
> many
> of us and that makes it difficult for us to identify with Larry's
> imaging.
>
> So maybe we are all right with our own images within this debate.
>
> I'm really struggling with trying to voice what's in my head, I
> apologise if
> I've made mistakes
>
> I will end I said I use to have a mum readily contact me for advice and
> emotional support. She has 2 boys on with AD/HD and another with CP
> both
> boys receive DLA. She would readily explain that looking after her son
> with
> CP was hard work but there was time for rest in between! However the
> child
> with AD/HD was non stop requiring attention and help virtually 24 hours
> a
> day. This mum had no doubts what some ever that looking after the child
> with AD/HD was much harder work overall.
>
> Oh dear, I nearly forgot you Simon I'm seen you as someone who has
> provided
> enormous amounts of effort and work to create recognition for disabled
> people to participate within society and it looks like that work could
> be
> swept under the carpet. Quite rightly you wish to ensure that doesn't
> happen!
>
> I guess my ultimate goal is to bring people with hidden impairments
> together
> within the disability movements and culture with the view of supporting
> each
> other to gain full access for all members of society to feel that they
> are
> valuable contributing members of society.
>
> Just something to think about!
>
> Well I shore hope I haven't put my foot in it and this has made some
> contribution!
>
> Andy Hayes
> village idiot (I sometimes think!)
> newly rebuilt UK web site;
> www.hi2u.org
> Hi2u for people with hidden impairments.
> Also known as invisible disabilities.
> Hi2u now is Browsealoud enabled. This facility will help people with
> reading difficulties use the hi2u web site.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Simon Stevens" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Something Positive?
>
>
> Dear Andy,
>
> Thank you for your email. As you can see, my language skills are not
> always that good myself. Oh Dear... This debate is very misunderstood
> but you kinda put your finger on it.
>
> You and your son want to be a part of the disabled movement and
> contribute your experiences to the bigger picture. We all have hidden
> impairments and we all need greater awareness. I now have reflex
> problems with means I can not eat late with affects my social life.
>
> There is a humanity with your approach but I do not get with this
> neurodiversity movement. They seem to wish to scrap the disabled
> movement and the general understanding of disability and our own
> experiences and reinvent disabIlity without including many disabled
> people.
>
> Anyone that knows me should know I am commited to helping all disabled
> people maximize their life experiences and worked damn hard. The sad
> part is organisations such as Scope have abused my commitment which has
> made be weary about helping others without payment and looking after
> number one.
>
> We need to share experiences not try to reinvent the meal.
>
> I personally with you and Chris all the best.
>
> Many thanks
>
> Simon
>
>
> --
>
> Simon Stevens
> Managing Director, Enable Enterprises
> [log in to unmask]
>
> NEED INSTANT ADVICE?
> CALL 247 INSTANT ON 090 904 80000 (£1 PER MINUTE)
>
> PO Box 1974, COVENTRY, CV3 1YF
> Tel: +44(0)24 7644 8130 (Sales 0800 358 8484)
> Fax: +44(0)870 133 2447
> IM: enableenterprises (Yahoo/AOL) simonenable (MSN) 155158793 (ICQ)
>
>
> Personal site: www.simonstevens.com
> Company shop: www.enableenterprises.com
> Free Newsletter: www.contactexpress.biz
>
> Join our FREE newsletter, send blank email to [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Disability-Research Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of big-hi2u
> Sent: 22 January 2003 11:52
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Something Positive?
>
> hello Simon
>
> first I must point out that I have "very severe dyslexia" I use voice
> recognition software along with text to speech however I'm unable to
> notice
> many mistakes where the wrong word has been recognised my the software.
> It
> takes anonymous amounts of time to compose work like replies to articles
> on
> this forum. Therefore I'm unable to express all the views I have
> regarding
> this discussion/debate.
>
> Simon, I believe both myself and my son (Chris) met you that an "East
> Midlands partnership conference" in fact I seem to remember being with
> you
> on a breakaway group within a workshop. This was probably about for
> years
> ago my son was probably 10 years old then. I didn't express my
> difficulties
> around dyslexia within that workshop and I'm afraid to say when I was
> last
> to report our group's findings to the whole workshop. I was too
> embarrassed
> to tell our breakaway group that I couldn't read or write in fear of
> appearing stupid. So I made some other excuse. We seem to get on very
> well
> together within that group and I was fully accepted as a "disabled
> person"
> because of being a wheelchair user. However my difficulties as some
> with
> dyslexia has caused me many times more difficulty than my needs as a
> wheelchair user.
>
> My son Chris is diagnosed with AD/HD and AS, both of us have used our
> skills
> to help support other people within the disability community. Chris has
> done many cartoon drawings for "disability now" to gain recognition for
> various difficulties. He also very cleverly at the age of 10 did a
> drawing
> of the East Midlands partnership conference, turning the characters into
> sheep with the heading "sheep have rights too". In fact the vice chair
> for
> scope saw these sketches and ask Chris to produce a coloured pitcher for
> scope officers in London. Chris's worked months on this drawing and
> presented to the chair at scope's AGM that we both attended in London
> about
> 5 years ago. During the conference and the AGM Chris with great fear
> put
> his hand up to speak. Everyone speaking was on camera and huge monitor
> not
> just the giant one behind people on stage but also monitors and each
> side of
> the conference area. At 10 years old Chris expressed his difficulties
> within attending school and how society was causing him so many
> difficulties. He also expressed how he felt he could use skills he had
> to
> support many difficulties that was debated through this conference.
> After
> this he got the loudest applause and every speaker after this from
> delegates
> and many speakers on stage referred to issues Chris had raised.
>
> Chris has been unable to fit in with normal schooling or should I say
> normal
> schooling has been unable to accommodate Chris. Chris has put his heart
> into the disability community and in return many are not taking or
> understanding the difficulties that Chris has with his AD/HD and AS.
>
> I noticed you have a large infantry on your site about work you have
> achieved for "disabled people".
>
> I too if I had time (which would be much easier if I could read and
> write)
> provide a large infantry of Organisations I've worked on and
> organisations I
> founded to support the disability community.
>
> The point I'm trying to raise is that there are many different types of
> impairments and only the ones with any individual impairment will
> understand
> the fall implications that within that impairment. As disabled people
> we
> have different impairments we also have different skills with should
> support
> each other with those skills we have.
>
> And Chris should get the support he needs for his impairment even though
> its
> not visible to many. He has certainly given his support to the
> disability
> community.
>
> Debates like this should not be seen as negative!!!
>
> It simply shows that maybe disability activist have been working so hard
> to
> campaign for their needs and show their skills! That we have forgotten
> that
> we are "human" with feelings and academic or not we can all experience
> pain!
> Maybe this debate has highlighted our feelings and reminded us about our
> pains that we experience trying to be a member of society.
>
> Andy
> newly rebuilt UK web site;
> www.hi2u.org
> Hi2u for people with hidden impairments.
> Also known as invisible disabilities.
> Hi2u now is Browsealoud enabled. This facility will help people with
> reading difficulties use the hi2u web site.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Simon Stevens" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 10:30 AM
> Subject: Re: Something Positive?
>
>
> > Is this being positive stuff a polite why is trying to ignore the real
> > issues and further oppressing those impairment groups who are further
> > discriminated by this whole mockery of impairment?
> >
> > How can I continue to be positive in a world which deny me every right
> > going? Where the police ignore abuse? Where disabled people have no
> way
> > of improving the situation! Now we must be all obey of wimps of hidden
> > impairment who seem annoyed that are not recognized as oppressed.
> Well,
> > I am afraid I can not accept the oppressive experience is absolute and
> > it is relevant and therefore there is an hiachertia of disability
> where
> > frankly, those at the top with minor impairment have no interest to
> help
> > those at the bottom with severe impairment.
> >
> > Also, I did not pick up on Larry's insult on my mother. Social skills
> or
> > not, this is deeply offensive and I suggest he considers his position
> in
> > disability if he has to insult family members to win his battles.
> >
> > I think at last, this list is waking up from many years of boredom!
> >
> > Many Thanks, Simon
> >
> > --
> >
> > Simon Stevens
> > Managing Director, Enable Enterprises
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > ________________End of message______________________
> >
> > Archives and tools for the Disability-Research Discussion List
> > are now located at:
> >
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> >
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> >
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