JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for ACAD-AE-MED Archives


ACAD-AE-MED Archives

ACAD-AE-MED Archives


ACAD-AE-MED@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

ACAD-AE-MED Home

ACAD-AE-MED Home

ACAD-AE-MED  January 2003

ACAD-AE-MED January 2003

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: A & E reforms

From:

Mick Molloy <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Accident and Emergency Academic List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 1 Jan 2003 13:08:03 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (100 lines)

> 
> This has always fascinated me about the ROI. The January 1st changeover
> seems such a bad idea, for several reasons. Firstly the New Year's Eve
> activity tends to continue until lunchtime, blending with a "secondary" rush
> of people who didn't manage to make it the night before, so New Year's Day
> is equally hideous. Added to that the likelihood that some of your seniors
> and middle-grades will expect to be off as they've just covered Christmas,
> or else they've just covered the night before. Finally it causes all sorts
> of headaches for those juniors who are trying to link in with UK schemes; I
> know, I've done that "cross-border" transition twice now! Of course you know
> all this Patrick, but has anyone tried to change it?

Adrian it has been tried before. There was a big impetus for change around
the time of the millenium as there was a fear( among the mangers who would
not be there on new Yeqrs Eve anyway) that every medical piece of technology
would fail and they wanted extra docs in all hospitals basically to stand
beside ventilators and such like as the new year approached.

I have to say here that there was no planned 1-2 year lay in for this rather
a 2-3 month rushed 'discussion session' with department officials. Their
plan was much as you intimate push the changeover back to Feb 1st (another
arbitrary date).

There were significant logistical problems around that at the time such as

For those on rotations which involve moving around the country significant
distances ( Ireland is not like the UK here and all roads and trains lead to
dublin, meaning that travel around the periphery can be quite difficult)
Rotations which involved movement would mean giving up current rented
apartment (too expensive for juniors to buy houses here) and renting a new
apartment for January 1st in new area. Had the proposed change been made
those moving would be homeless they would first have to find accommodation
in a short period and second have to pay 2 rentals for the month of january.

Second Interns (JHOs) are on scheduled rotations many to peripheral
hospitals and must do 6 months med 6 months surg. The department of healths
plan was for them to do 7 and 5 and hope the medical council wouldnąt mind
and that they would not have to do an extra month in one specialty in July
thus affecting the intake of SHOs for the next year.

Thirdly many rotations here are involved with the US and these would have
been planned for at least a year with the junior doc basically giving up
holidays for one 6 month period to go to US in Late december for their
change period. If the person is not able to go on time the post often falls
for that 6 months and there would be no post at home for them either ( not
an uncommon phenomenon on some poorly organised rotations at home either)

Fourthly the issue of just moving the date to coincide with UK changeover
did not have universal acceptance among juniors here either as there are
significant advantages to them having a month to organise prior to taking up
a job over there. For many moving this is a big career move usually to an
SpR post meaning 5-6 years in the UK at least. These guys work average 77
hour weeks here already leaving little time to organise lock stock and
however many smoking nappies, find accommodation in the UK and settle in to
the area prior to taking up post. The month here gives a nice leeway to get
life sorted out which you will admit is often a problem when people are very
career focussed for a significant period.

When the doc is considering a reverse move back to Ireland it is usually for
a substantive post ( not always but in the main it is for a senior
position). At this time the date of junior changeover should be irrelevant
as the start date for the doc in question should be a mutually agreed one
with the new employing authority.

Changing over on a Wednesday presents too many logistical problems,
finishing work at 5 or 6 pm , last trains leaving Connolly Station (for east
Coast and North East/North West) leave at 6.30 pm. Not Much time there.
Speaking as a non driver here. More sense to change on a Monday as fewer
inconvenienced if not on call for the weekend.

My proposals on this a few years back were that the changeover should take
place then second Monday in january ( 1st Monday is bank holiday sometimes)
and 1st Monday in July. Leaves time for those moving abroad, not too
inconvenient for those going to US and misses the great holiday shakeup
which Pat and others have to overcome every year. Remember in ireland there
are still some single consultant departments ( there are many departments
with no consultants) but the one person must be available every new years
day for new staff induction. This system would at least allow for the best
of both worlds here and should work quite well until the next millenium or
will it be the year 10000 when the computers throw up the next problem

Mick Molloy
> 
> It would be relatively easy to move the changeover back by one month (moving
> it forward would, on the other hand, be more problematic). If you plan 1 to
> 2 years in advance, then it's just a matter of offering the juniors 7-month
> or 13-month contracts so that the posts end up changing on 1st February or
> 1st August. In the UK we felt so strongly about the dangers of changeover
> that we further tweaked it a few years back, so that it now occurs on the
> first Wednesday of February and August, rather than the 1st, which was
> always harder to manage, especially if it occurred at a weekend.
> 
> It's just a thought, but I suspect it's the emergency physicians who suffer
> most from this "anomaly", and ironically you guys seem to have too much on
> your plate with other matters at the moment to worry about this particular
> problem. Enjoy your leave!
> 
> Adrian Fogarty
> 

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
September 2022
July 2022
February 2022
January 2022
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
September 2019
March 2019
April 2018
January 2018
November 2017
May 2017
March 2017
November 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
August 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
October 2014
September 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
February 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
May 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager