Dear Mike,
I promised I would comment further on this poem, and the fact that it seemed
to me that forgiveness came out of nowhere. Forgiveness, it seems to me is a
pretty loaded word -I think most people thinking about 'forgiveness' would
think of it in a wider sense than forgiveness after a lovers' tiff -esp when
coupled with fear filling the view.....
I feel you are expecting a reader to read this rather like a detective
story, but frankly, even for that genre, I don't think there are enough
clues. You say that the roses should be read as a peace-offering - why? Is
it a male thing to regard the presence of flowers as clear evidence of a
former quarrel and subsequent  peace-offering? Is this what any vase of
flowers immediately suggests to you?
Taking the red roses in themselves as a symbol, the most obvious
significance is love and passion, not a symbol of guilt. There is an old
'language of flowers' and I am pretty sure that roses never symbolised
forgiveness.

"Fear fills my view of the prospect.
 The deep blue of repose is so far,
 so great the leap into the lap of forgiveness"
I think it is too much a case of you knowing what you intended but not
communicating it clearly enough to a reader, so I think this ending comes
across as overblown, and, as I said , unjustified. And this is ,of course,
just my opinion.
Kind regards,
    grasshopper



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Horwood" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [THE-WORKS] Domestic geography- Grasshopper


> Hello Grasshopper,
                    Many thanks for your feedback on this one. I was a bit
nervous about the inversions myself but in the end decided to go with them
for the overblown, rather exaggerated tone I felt they helped to create. You
say this wasn´t your biggest problem with this piece, may I return to pick
it up later?
The second point that bothered you was the forgiveness at the end which you
have interpreted as having theological significance. Every reader must find
their own way through a poem, of course, but this did surprise me. The whole
setting of the poem is domestic, as the title indicates. The first two
stanzas describe a domestic interior and then we move to the breakfast
table, where, in somewhat mock-heroic terms, our protagonist makes the
difficult journey to the other side (of the table, not the other `other
side´). I think this suggests a meeting with one´s partner who may very well
be divine in one common-usage sense of the word, but not really in the
theological sense. Now in this context, I feel that the appearance of the
word `forgiveness´ suggests some kind of disagreement in which culpability
attaches to the partner who has been represented in the second half of the
poem as being considerably discomfited. He has, after all, already offered
red roses as a token of his remorse. I wanted to try to convey this idea
through the mock-heroic imagery of the trip across the table being conceived
in terms of mountaineering (mercifully, without the teeth this time;-) It
was in this mock-heroic presentation that I hoped the overblown language of
the opening stanzas might find their justification. At the back of my mind
was the expression `to make a mountain out of a molehill´ which the poem
actually literalises (if there is such a verb). This, at least, was my aim
and in this context - I mean the evident conflict between the two lovers - I
felt that the appearance of forgiveness, or at least the hope of it was
admissible.
I hope this indicates what I was trying to do and how I had hoped I might
achieve it. Does any of it make sense? It´s very likely that I have fallen
flat on my face again but I´m so used to being discovered in that position
it scarcely bothers me any more. I´d be interested to hear your reactions to
my explication if you feel sufficiently interested to pursue the topic.



Best wishes,   Mike



 > Lähettäjä: grasshopper <[log in to unmask]>
> Päiväys: 2003/11/27 to PM 05:58:48 GMT+02:00
> Vastaanottaja: [log in to unmask]
> Aihe: Re: New sub: Domestic geography
>
> Dear Mike,
>      I'm not keen on the inversions you've used, but the real problem for
me
> was the philosophical/theological leap at the end:
>
>  'The deep blue of repose is so far,
>  so great the leap into the lap of forgiveness'
>
> Forgiveness, when ,where, what for ,whaaa.............?
> I don't think you can close on the sort of whammy without setting it up
> beforehand, otherwise it pops up out of the blue, completely unjustified,
> and the effect for me was a bit like stubbing my toe on the last line.
> Kind reagrds,
>    grasshopper
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Horwood" <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 8:43 AM
> Subject: [THE-WORKS] New sub: Domestic geography
>
>
> >
> > Domestic Geography
> >
> > On a polished table the vase stands;
> > red roses lend to a cool room
> > an opulence and elegance.
> > The dark wood, in places, shines
> > like water where it catches light.
> >
> > In Alpine white the four walls rise
> > above the Persian carpet´s intricate design
> > of russet islands set in shimmering blues
> > while glazed and panelled double doors
> > reveal a new perspective,
> >
> > where, after breakfast, I have climbed
> > to a high, hard place, my muscles racked
> > and sore. Small as an ant
> > I labour over the tabletop plain,
> > under the teacup peaks, the eggshell snow,
> >
> > to the edge, where my balance
> > and sense of proportion waver.
> > Fear fills my view of the prospect.
> > The deep blue of repose is so far,
> > so great the leap into the lap of forgiveness.
> >
>
> >
> > Mike
> >
>