Mike
Something is going deeply wierd with The Works. Your comment was somewhere
at the bottom of a load of gobbledygook. Hope mine gets to you better.
My cryptic comments about assuming our experience is universal was actually
intended for Sue - who framed the fact that she didn't quite 'get' a simile
in terms of the response of an average reader and later 'any' reader, which
opened up a whole diversion in your response - all of which I agree with but
doesn't actually deal with the issue in hand.
I've no problem with metaphor. Though this is actually a simile isn't it? My
comment I think is that if you make a simile it has to work. I'm a reader
with high expectations of poet. I would expect this simile to cover both
teeth and jaw. According to your comment you intend that it should. I can't
quite make it work for me - the mountain range isn't like a jaw. Mountains
aren't set into a range like teeth into a jaw - and these are against a blue
sky - which isn't like a jaw or mountain altogether.
So I understand your intention but your simile doesn't fully realise itself
in my mind.
I don't think there's a taboo against making the conceptual connection in
your own mind - that's what the creative process is all about. But the
technical process of writing poetry is about making something happen in the
readers mind - in some cases getting them to make the same connection. As I
read I assumed that you were trying to put across a connection between tooth
and mountain, jaw and what the mountain was in (the range) and presumably
about the connection between tooth/jaw mountain/range. So my behaviour as a
reader is to try and make that connection.
I'm not making sweeping comments about the role of metaphor. I don't think
there's an affront here. I just think that maybe the connection your brain
reached for doesn't work for me - and apparently not for a few others as
well.
Creativity embraces failure. Art excises it.
Helen
>
> > Hello Helen,
> Thanks for your comments on the controversy of the teeth. T=
> he danger of thinking our experiences are universal is one that I=B4m vag=
> uely familiar with. I don=B4t know if I=B4ve caught quite correctly your =
> application of it here, but the line I=B4m working along involves a quest=
> ion over the use of metaphor. Again, I=B4m not sure if I=B4ve got this ri=
> ght but I think I=B4ve picked up somewhere (maybe comments on this list, =
> or perhaps reviews of poetry books) that there is a problem with using me=
> taphor - metaphor is bad/wrong/dangerous - something like that? Is it so?=
> I mean, has such a conviction gained popularity? If this IS the case the=
> n I think the reasoning must go something along the lines of `just becaus=
> e my experiences and mental processes lead my brain to form a connection =
> between two objects, I must not assume that others(readers) are going to =
> make the same connection and that therefore using my own metaphorical con=
> nections in poetry will be misleading and possibly an affront to the righ=
> ts of the reader=B4. Again, have I got this right, or am I completely off=
> the mark? If this is all so, then I conclude the argument against these =
> wretched teeth is that they are in my mind, not in the jaw of the blessed=
> snow leopard, and that they should have stayed there;-) I had been plann=
> ing to raise this question about metaphor earlier because I had begun to =
> wonder whether there was something I didn=B4t know and now it has come up=
> by itself, so to speak. Does anyone out there know the answer to this?
>
>
> Puzzled of Finland (a.k.a Mike)
>
>
>
> > L=E4hett=E4j=E4: Helen Clare <[log in to unmask]>
> > P=E4iv=E4ys: 2003/11/20 to PM 06:16:16 GMT+02:00
> > Vastaanottaja: [log in to unmask]
> > Aihe: Re: Dents du midi - Sue/Mike
> >=20
> > any reader/ average reader - I still think despite conversations elsewh=
> ere
> > that we have to be careful in assuming our experience is universal!
> > Personally, if a simile spoke of both teeth in a jaw I'd look for it t=
> o
> > give me an image of the teeth, the jaw and the teeth in the jaw.
> > Helen
> >=20
> >=20
> > - Original Message -----
> > From: Sue Scalf <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 11:48 AM
> > Subject: Re: Dents du midi - Sue
> >=20
> >=20
> > > Average reader was not a good word choice, Mike. Any reader might ha=
> ve
> > been
> > > a better one.
> >=20
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