Hi Grasshopper,
Thanks for your comments! I think you're right that: "the use of 'you'
almost suggests that it is something that can/does happen to the general
'you', anyone." And that's "part" of what I'm trying to get across... (a
kind of invitation to consider "this could be me...")
But then you carry on: "Also I get a sort of undercurrent of the imperative
'you' as if this is something the reader WILL experience, which is a bit
off-putting (for me)" which is a worry to me, as well... I guess I was sort
of hoping, by the end of the poem, that a reader might think, "Yeh, that's
what I'd do if I was faced with this situation..." but (shrug of shoulders,
slow sigh) that may not happen...
I’ve also been busy glancing hurriedly through books of poems, checking to
find some with “You” in. I’ve tried the books I thought would have plenty
(Last Century Russian poets, mainly…) but discovered that most of the
examples offered were so short. Sifting through the usual suspects, I felt
sure there’d be some… but no exclusively 2nd person poem with more than
eight lines. I’m suspecting I may be trying to do something that can’t be
done. (ie, it could be that I’ve caught the flavour of getting me there -
but they’ve done it with the 1st person or the 3rd person voice.)
I’ve come across plenty of poems using the second person and, at first I
thought, “Yessss!!!” – but they seem to be poems that are about
relationships – they start with a “You” but then I realise they have a “You”
and an “I” (So, they're not what I'm about). Or there’s a few 2nd person
short poems with a loud declamatory tone – and that’s no help because I’m
looking for one with a narrative.
It may be, therefore, that what I'm hoping may happen can't happen - and
others realise that better than me. So, I may give in flicking through this
and then that, save this one just in case… and switch it all to the third
person.
Bob
>From: grasshopper <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: In Times Such As These - Bob
>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:28:13 +0100
>
>Dear Bob,
> Using the 2nd person in a poem does something very odd to it, I find.
>It's interesting that you mention that you're trying to convey a sense of
>unusualness, of dislocation, because to me the use of 'you' almost suggests
>that it is something that can/does happen to the general 'you', anyone.
>Also
>I get a sort of undercurrent of the imperative 'you' as if this is
>something
>the reader WILL experience, which is a bit off-putting (for me). In a
>strange way, the 3rd person seems to be the most self-conscious voice (in a
>literary sense).
>What if (heheheh)you put it in the 3rd person then, to distance yourself
>from the experience of the poem? What would that do to it?
>Apologies for going on, but I find this question of person in a poem
>fascinating. Amazing how a poem can change by a change of person or
>tense -is this another expression of the noun-verb element being the vital
>part of a poem?
>Kind regards,
> grasshopper
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bob Cooper" <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 1:14 PM
>Subject: Re: [THE-WORKS] In Times Such As These
>
>
>Hi grasshopper,
>reply follows your message:
>
> >Dear Bob,
> >Have you tried this (I bet you have) in the first person. Seems to me the
> >'you' distances it a bit into generality, and yet the strength of this
>poem
> >is the particularity.
> >Just a thought.
> >Kind regards,
> >grasshopper
>
>
>Yeh, using the 2nd person is a risk, I know. Maybe after discussing using
>the "You" voice with Frank the desire to try to write one must have wormed
>its way into my mind and stimulated me to try it. I guess I'm also trying
>to
>get a sense of dislocation, of unusualness, to what's going on here. I sort
>of felt that the 1st person, the I voice, made the experience seem too
>normal, made it seem as if this is just happening to someone like me, the
>writer. But isn't he a strange guy if this is what he ends up doing? I
>didn't want the reader to feel so distanced from the experience, feel that
>it may never happen to you, the reader. I don't know (yet) if it succeeds,
>though.
>Bob
>
>P.S. (to everyone!)
>Sorry the formatting didn't hold! It looks kinda weird on my screen -
>should
>I try again?
>
>
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Bob Cooper" <[log in to unmask]>
> >Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 10:26 AM
> >Subject: [THE-WORKS] In Times Such As These
> >
> >
> >One for C & C
> >(and I hope the formatting holds - the very short lines are supposed to
>be
> >indented so they begin just below the end of the previous line!)
> >
> >In Times Such As These
> >
> >It's high summer, but the weather's unsettled - there are storms -
> >and, as instructed, you turn up and walk slowly down a long corridor
> >then wait in a room with tall windows where people stand still,
> >where you're hoping the light will always pour in,
> > and
> >there's a whisper -
> >though, when you look round, you can't see who's moving, who's nodding,
> >and you've always done this, been someone who pauses, wants reassurance,
> >a smile like a touch you don't fully recall but felt as a small child
> >when your father merely traced your hair and you felt strong.
> >
> > It is a whisper
> >that's been heard by the people around you - him in the corner with
> >crutches,
> >her with the eye patch, those over there with bandages on their hands -
> >the comfort they know in their calm faces, their brave postures,
> >so that, even if men stood near them with Uzi's, they wouldn't flinch,
> >wouldn't avoid each other's eyes, or look down at the floor.
> >
> > It is a whisper
> >that's heard when the world is like this, one that's so vital to hear,
> >one that's louder than paper, that puts announcements in their places,
> >that works round the back of those with walkie-talkies, and people grin,
> >but you don't know what it's saying, you know you don't need to,
> >just knowing it's said is enough, except now you're here
> >
> > and you see
> >some who stare blankly, who you feel sure once felt so certain,
> >but now look so see-through you can see their hearts trembling,
> >yet you can whisper so they will hear, too - and others stood near them
> >may hear what they pass on - that what's whispered elsewhere
> >
> > is still here.
> >
> >Bob Cooper
> >
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