I think part of the problem is that we are trying to shoehorn the
experience into the sonnet form.



-----Original Message-----
From: The Pennine Poetry Works [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Mike Horwood
Sent: 19 May 2003 09:21
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: NEW: Poison Gas Demo


Hello Carl,
           I´m having difficulties with this one again and I don´t know
whether the fault lies in my failure to follow where your poem leads or
in some failure in the poem itself. The reason for this uncertainty is
an acknowledgement that some very good poems are `difficult´ and I know
from experience that I have a certain capacity for failing to `get it´.
With that proviso in mind, then, here are a selection of thoughts that
go through my mind as I read the poem. 
Lines 1-2: `train´ could be taken in various ways here, although not all
would make literal sense - travel by train, practice, take aim as in
train a gun upon a target. The first sense doesn´t fit the rest of the
phrase but the other two could, for instance testing out weapons on a
civilian population could be called `training upon them´. If this
happened inside one country the government in question could `explain´
it as suppressing rebellion hence it could be presented as `law´. 
`summoned´ suggests that the voices in the poem, `we´, are acting under
some kind of official compulsion such as conscripts to an army. And they
are `reluctant´. Line 3: `another wrong at Christian hands?´ suggests an
interpretation of events, a placing of blame, but the question mark puts
the validity of it in doubt, at least in the minds of `we´. Line 3-4:
Seems to imply transportation within their own country. Line 5: the
voices of the poem seem very unclear about the reasons behind everything
that is happening to them. They are like pawns. Lines 6-8: The word
`case´ is a puzzle here. One sense would be suitcase and that is
reinforced by the `few belongings´ and this in turn suggests refugees.
But for such a reading I would expect `case´ to be plural (how many are
`we´? I imagine a largeish group). The other sense of `case´ is like
suit in the legal sense. But then `belongings´ doesn´t fit. Line 8: Are
`we´ following the path indicated/`traced´ by other soldiers, or have
`we´ assumed the role of soldiers (under compulsion, reluctantly) so
that our path is the soldiers´ path? Line 9: Are `they´ and the soldiers
from the previous line the same? If so then `we´ did not become
soldiers. Or are `they´ from the other side in this conflict. Have `we´
been taken captive? What does `pull us hard apart´ mean? Lines 8-9:
Suggests a prison camp. But `the naked knot constricts´? This I can´t
fathom. A knot of naked people? But then how could it constrict? It
might tighten but then your rhyme is lost. If it´s a literal knot, why
is it naked? Lines 10-11: `enters´ must indicate that the `naked knot´
consisted of people and the people are the same `we´ throughout the
poem. So `we´ are now captives. Line 12: `the men outside´ must be the
captors yet `we´ have some reason to `praise´ them. Maybe they have
`liberated´ us, even though we find ourselves locked up in the process.
This reasoning might well involve some mental acrobatics/`contortion´.
Is this the sense you mean with `contort our thoughts´? The phrase rings
a bit awkwardly to my ear.
`slicked´: there´s oil here somewhere, then. The linguistic link is
clear, but I would question whether  `slicked hair´ works as an image
for the other kind of oil. Line 14: `things that dare not seem´ is an
odd notion. I want to read this as things that WE dare not
imagine/hope/believe.

This is what I got from these points. It was a bit of a struggle and I´m
not sure if I believe all of these interpretations myself and at the end
I´m left a little bit with the feeling, well, now where am I? That may
be because I don´t recognise the reference to Elohim.

I hope these thoughts are useful.


Best wishes,  Mike



--- Alkuperäinen viesti ---
Reluctant still as law and neighbor train
upon us: summoned: just another wrong 
at Christian hands? We board and cross terrain
we know, then tumble out, a motley throng.

Uncertain aims await us here: we've trucked
with some of these before. But now our case
is left behind, some few belongings tucked 
inside. We tread the path the soldiers trace.

They pull us hard apart — a strange resort
of wooden huts. The naked knot constricts
and enters, shoved: we sprawl, relieved, contort
our thoughts to praise the men outside with slicked

hair: our ancient hope in Elohim
resolves to hope in things that dare not seem.