Dried up seems the sort of idea I was looking for - there have to be ways of
expressing the ending or stopping while staying with the river. or, since
rivers don't normally dry up, perhaps you should walk away from the river on
different paths. I agree with Bob that you want to keep the unity of the
watery metaphor as that is the whole basis of the main part of the poem.
Unless you can make the poem itself very obviously stop in midstream - and
there's always drowning. Though drowning might suggests the reverse outcome.
Rescue from drowning? Could darkness call a halt? it's becoming an
intriguing crit discussion
bw
SallyE

on 12/5/03 8:15 am, Mike Horwood at [log in to unmask] wrote:

> Hello Bob,
> Thanks for your comments and observations on this one. I´m interested in your
> first suggestion of starting with the image, the stream, rather than desire. I
> hadn´t rationalised it during composition but I might say now/later that
> desire (or a desire) is the focal point of the poem and starting with it adds
> impact and focus. Does that make sense? If I were to try starting with the
> stream, how might it go? Like this:
> In places the stream rippled and splashed,
> refracting sunlight,
> in places it ran smooth and deep....
> Could the poem in fact continue from that point virtually unchanged? And the
> reader makes the connection at some point between the stream and desire?
> Your point about the poet intervening is one I often hear and it´s true that I
> do it. Partly I think this is a question of individual style and taste but I
> dislike poetry where such comment is intrusive and criticise it myself in
> others. My problem is sometimes identifying what exactly is intervening and
> what is describing. For instance if the line you mentioned was changed thus:
> She did not fight him or cry, but hid her pain
> does that overcome the problem. My feeling is usually that saying the same
> thing in a way that is only marginally different doesn´t matter so much, but I
> may well be wrong about that. What do you think?
> Your point about the change towards the end has also drawn comments from
> others, although contradictory ones. I was interested that you used the word
> `withdrawn´ to describe the last twa stanzas because that is exactly what the
> partners in the poem have done. I can´t myself see any way to extend the
> stream metaphor into the end precisely because their desire has ....not dried
> up exactly, but been redirected. I also felt that using the indefinite article
> in the final stanza - a desire - played a significant role. But maybe it only
> means something to me.
> Anyway, these are a few further ideas. If you feel like adding any comments to
> these I´d be very interested to hear what you think.
> 
> 
> 
> Best wishes,   Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- Alkuperäinen viesti ---
> Hi Mike,
> I’m intrigued by this poem – how you’re working the metaphor, the stream,
> with the feeling, desire. But I feel it’s sort of too weak in how it’s
> working. For instance could you get the reader closer to the stream? Instead
> of starting with a statement “Their desire flowed like…” hit us with the
> image: the stream! Then, when we can see that, it might be possible to
> reveal the poem’s “other” agenda, their desire.
> There’s also bits where the poet intervenes in the action instead of
> describing what’s going on.
> “There was no battle, no tears, yet she was hurt.” is a case in point. And
> the last 2 stanzas are from the same withdrawn point of view – where there’s
> no desire in them! (Maybe because the stream doesn’t figure in the poem
> anymore!).
> But it’s got me thinking… things like what other links can I make between
> desire and water that can keep the poem flowing. (I’m thinking of Narcissus,
> of how he fell in love with – ie how he desired – his own image in the water
> and wondering if that could be a useful extension to how the poem is
> positioning the guy by the stream… but there’s probably lots of other
> stories, images, allusions, that could be shadowed too!). In our chatter
> here the image has been called a cliché… and it could be seen as that –
> unless you possess it a bit more and work it. Cos I think a cliché is a
> world-weary, almost worn out, kind of truth – and a bit more freshness can
> still be found…
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
>> From: Mike Horwood <[log in to unmask]>
>> Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: new sub: Desire
>> Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 10:04:55 +0300
>> 
>> Desire
>> 
>> Their desire flowed like a stream;
>> here the surface rippled and splashed,
>> refracting sunlight,
>> there it ran smooth and deep.
>> In places it ran underground
>> as an underground spring might feed a well
>> or chill the air with a dampness like fear.
>> 
>> He stood on the bankside,
>> dipped bare feet in the flow
>> but slaked his thirst from furtive buckets.
>> There was no battle, no tears, yet she was hurt.
>> She spoke Janus words, turning in the doorway
>> like a stream turned from its course,
>> and observed him, puzzled, dowsing.
>> 
>> He knew something was lacking.
>> Later he called it confidence,
>> finally a form of trust.
>> 
>> There had been a desire, fear, a lack;
>> the scrape of furniture, click of a lock,
>> a key alone on the table.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Mike
> 
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