What is your reason for posting a private email to the listserve, without
the courtesy of a request?  - Deborah


****************


Dear Deborah,
I am glad you joined the List and that you did so at the invitation of
people who are already here and already enjoy the List and the company of
the people here. Their recommendation of the List to your attention surely
indicates that they see this as a friendly and helpful site.
My point in responding to your notes as I did was that I felt there was an
edge entering into the exchanges, devolving from your poem, in particular
and I felt it a useful time to remind users old and new of the protocols of
the List. It was not intended for you personally and I am sorry if you felt
it was. You have not, as far as I am aware, offended anyone and I hope that
my message did not convey the impression that that was the case.
Grasshopper and Carl's comments were robust but not necessarily invective.
My own poetry is often the subject of comments and I accept that most of
them, if not all of them, are aimed at improving the poem and thence
improving myself as poet. I do not always agree nor accept the remarks but I
do accept that the intention is honest and kindly. That may appear a little
naive and perhaps it is but it leads to a happy life and a calmed ulcer.
People here, I find, do not waste their time commenting on a poem they feel
is beyond hope nor, for that matter, on a poet they do not respect. I merely
thank them for their time and go my own way, to my own lights, accepting the
advice or not, depending on how I, as the poet, the creator of the poem in
question, evaluate the advice.
I hope you accept that the List functions best when criticism is helpfully
intended and accepted as such and although a poem is as near and dear to us
as a child, often born of a similar combination of love, pain and effort,
when we launch it into the public domain we must sever the umbilical and
allow it to stand freely.
So welcome Deborah and I hope to see more of your work here.
I have kept this in the List and not gone back-channel because I hope all
will read and understand the protocol better.Regards Arthur.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deborah Russell" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: Delicat pastel/Deb - Colin Re: grasshopper


>
>Dear Arthur:
>
>
>I came to this board through the  suggestion of Sally and Carole.
>
>I also post with Gary, on a few lists (and have collaborated with him,
>
>on several occasions) and recently became 'acquainted' with Ryfkah's
>
>work, on other boards.
>
>I have not seen such inappropriate and rude posts, from members, on any
>
>board, except public forums. Is this a public forum?
>
>
>I do not appreciate the rude comments made by Carl or grasshopper,
>
>which (in my opinion) seem to be the vocabulary and reaction of young,
>
>enthusiastic college students, not adults.
>
>
>I do not believe I have offended anyone. I should probably apologise to
>
>someone, but if that is the case, you might have sent an email
>
>to inform me.
>
>
>
>Regards -
>
>Deborah
>
>RE: your message (below)
>
>************************
>
>Deborah, as moderator I am, in a way, responsible for this list being used
>for the purpose for which it was originally designed. The List is designed
>for the submission of work which in the opinion of
the
>submitting poet has reached a stage when the poet can not really see the
way
>forward for the poem and is desirous of help, advice, reassurance,
whatever
>from a group of people who are at a similar or better level of ability but
>are nevertheless friends inside the context of this List Most advice is
>well intentioned and kindly, it is part of the charm of
this
>List, such as it is, that advice while robust sometimes is to be taken as
>well intentioned and hopefully helpful. Anodyne comments are pleasing and
>encouraging but in terms of poetic development unhelpful mostly.
>Occasionally and happily rarely someone says something that might appear
>hurtful. In the interests of the happy functioning of the List and
everyone
>else's Inbox, differences of opinion are asked to be resolved backchannel,
>which is privately by an exchange of e-mails and not through the auspices
of
>the List. Can I please remind everyone that the List is the property of a
>University and as such Government funded to some degree and is not here for
>flaming, abuse or personal attacks. The Worm, a subsidiary past time of the
>List is a monthly issue of
finished
>poems submitted to a selection panel and any finished work should be
>referred to that panel for evaluation and hopefully choice. Please
>understand that the written word is not the same as the spoken word which
>is often accompanied by a face and eyes and more can be read into a written
>message than in initially intended. Please accept this explanation in the
>manner which I intend it which is a polite reminder of the protocols and
>manners of the List. This applies to all users and anyone reading this
>message. Let peace reign and poetry prosper! Regards Arthur.
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Deborah Russell" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 3:20 AM
>Subject: Re: Delicat pastel/Deb - Colin Re: grasshopper
>
>
>  > The term workshop implies that this is a place for work. I posted for
> > constructive comments, not sarcastic remarks. Your rudeness indicates
>that  > you have no interest in providing information that is useful or
>insightful.  > It also indicates that you are plural and have a fantasy
>about what is  > wasting your time. - Deborah  >  > Dear Deborah,  >  >
>You write:" I like it 'as is', to me, it says what I want it to say - at  >
>least for now."  >   If you feel so happy with your poem as is, why are you
>posting it to
a
>  > workshopping list?  > Why not put it on a website, ot post it off to
>Pakistan? We post poems here  > to get feedback on them, because we are not
>all as convinced as you are that  > our work is perfect as it stands.  >  >
>If you don't want honest feedback, good or bad, don't post poems here.
>There  > are plenty of other lists where the members simply read each
>others' poems  > and say 'Yours is lovely too.' The Works list isn't like
>that. We post here  > to be made aware of the strengths and weaknesses of
>our poetry.If
that's
>not  > what you want, then you are wasting other members' time when they
>take the  > trouble to comment on your work.  > Kind regards,  >
>grasshopper  >  > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "Deborah Russell"
><[log in to unmask]>  > Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2003 9:56 PM  >
>Subject: Re: [THE-WORKS] Delicat pastel/Deb - Colin  >  >  >  > Don't you
>think it's better to appreciate your personal
understanding?
>  >  > This poem is the same nature and form of my work published by Moshin
>  > Jaffe,  >  > Editor of Tapestry, News International. (Pakistan)  >  > I
>like it 'as is', to me, it says what I want it to say - at least
for
>  > now.  >  >  >  > Thanks for commenting.  >  >  >  > - Deborah  >  >  >
> >  >  >  >  > Deb  >  >  >  > Some great phrases here such as, "perfumed
>whispers that die in  > captivity"  >  > and "your tongue caresses mine as
>though eternity exists"  but I
can't
>  > say  >  > that I follow all of the poem. I follow it more than not
>follow it
(I
>  >  > think).  >  >  >  > Colin


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