No rhyming does not worry me at all. Some of my best friends write in
rhyme.... all the time.
But why do you think I wouldn't like the lines end stopped?? Is there
something wrong with end-stopping?
I have always understood that line breaks are generally used to enable a
poet to allow his thinking to be expressed as if he were reciting it, it is
almost a form of punctuation, a line break carrying as much weight and
breath as a comma or stop, if not why break at all? Just for the sake of the
shape of the poem?? So if that is so your line breaks carry no such weight
or authority but ride over into the next line almost always. In your sonnet
you line break on the rhyme and the whole sentence unbroken gains nothing by
being broken at that particular point other than it meets the demands of
metre and rhyme of the sonnet form. Now I do not have a case against
enjambment at all not even in a sonnet but it does seem you break solely for
the sake of the rhyme and that is what I mean by rhyme enforced enjambment
perhaps I should have called it rhyme forced line breaks to be more
accurate. ( It was written early Monday morning, not my best time at all.)
Hope this clarifies my remarks. As I did mention earlier it reads out loud
OK anyway. Regards Arthur.----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Reimann" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: The Longwood Story (Christina, Arthur, Deborah, Mary)


> > It's the listy solutions to meter and abundance of adjectives that
> > give me problems: 'of shooting, reaching water. Dirt, manure',  'in
> > lustrous leaping sprays and tumbling pools, / and stroll through cacti,
> > boxwood, hothouse ferns'.  I can accept the rather archaic voice
> > because it seems in character but I know too well how tempting it is
> > to include words or lists to get the sonnet to scan and rhyme.
> > bw
> > christina
>
> Hi Christina! Thanks for looking in on this one. It may be that using
> two nouns or adjectives back to back will always be open to the
> suggestion that scan or rhyme was sought. But can they really be avoided?
> I opened Seamus Heaney's book "Opened Ground" at random and found myself
> on "Sandstone Keepsake": "It is a kind of chalky russet / solidified
> gourd, sedimentary / and so often reliably dense and bricky". If this
> were a sonnet, would he have to fundamentally re-work the description?
> I'm not trying to deflate your critique, but rather considering what is
> really possible.
>
> One solution to the problem of how to present the reader with the
> diversity of plants and experiences at Longwood is to introduce relevant
> vocabulary at surprising moments throughout the piece. For example, his
> early life could be associated with a plant, etc. I think that would be
> so oblique as to seem affectedly artsy, though. I'm not sure how to
> present a range of plants except to mention them. What I've found is
> that there's always something that can be said, that will scan well.
> Meter is not really a limitation. Sure, "cacti, boxwood, hothouse ferns"
> scans well, but cacti oppose water plants, a boxwood was really
> important at the founding moments of the garden, and hothouse opposes
> outdoor experiences. So as I read your remarks, I'm not trying to avoid
> them, but rather wondering how legitimately to write out a piece that
> appears to involve a need to list something. He loved water, and water
> does so many things there.
>
>
> > A nice sonnet although rhyme enforced enjambment worries me sometimes
> > but it sounds OK read aloud, which is how poetry should be read , I
> > suppose.
>
> Hi Arthur! What is rhyme enforced enjambment? Do you mean that rhyme
> itself worries you? Surely you wouldn't want the lines end-stopped....
> Do you prefer slant rhymes? Tell the truth, but slant? :-)
>
> > there has to be something else in the poem that raises it to a
> > universal experience. ' Binsey Poplars' for instance is not about that
> > place or those trees as such, they were the cause of the poem, but
> > the poem was about something else. So I am looking for something else
> > here.
>
> I think the poem is about the way the Longwood founder might perceive
> his own life and the founding, and continuing life, of Longwood. I
> don't know if there's anything else there. Maybe it's a little like a
> biography in sonnet form.
>
> > Perhaps some clue in 'Dirt, manure are cheerful mire ' although I did
> > think you were seeking a rhyme for Nemour there.
>
> Wasn't that great, Nemours, manure! ha ha!! Actually I didn't need to
> end a line with Nemours, and manure is such a surprising thing to work
> with when your company makes cleaning chemicals, but hey. The guy had
> his work appetites, and he wanted to build a garden.
>
> > There is a curious turn in the last few lines and I do wonder if you are
> > aware of the commercial implications of 'returns on my initial buy'
which
> > does seriously question the expiation theme of cleansing waters and the
> > philanthropy of opening his gardens to the world. They seem at odds with
> > each other.
>
> Oh definitely! The returns on the buy: I was very pleased with that, as
> it showed a business acumen that imbued all his efforts.
>
> > I know the story and have been to Winterthur Gardens. I've also met Pete
> > Dupont, on two occasions, during his campaigns. Delaware is a small
state,
> > you can't avoid people if you try. Interesting perspective, seems odd
how
> > you have so much history included in a short poem. - Deborah
>
> Thanks for looking in on this one Deborah! I was trying to thread my way
> through his life's story, so I'm glad if there's a good sampling in
> there. Might try Eleuthere next!
>
> > I have only seen photographs of Longwood Gardens, never been there
> > but how you describe it in the sonnet is how I imagine it to be.  I
> > did not know the history of it beginnings so this makes for an
> > interesting work.
> > I like the line wraps (enjambment?) nice work.  Nice tone and flow
> > too.
>
> Hello Mary! Thanks for looking in on this one. What would you say is the
> most awkward moment in the sonnet?
>
> Thanks all for reading and critiquing. :-)
>
> Carl
>
>
>
>
> ========poem below is same as original========
> The Longwood Story
>
> My father killed, and I his eldest son,
> a Brandywine du Pont, began to map
> my way within that name: a future won
> by work and trade. A garden sculpture tap
> released a spire of joyful plans: Nemours
> a subtle marvel to behold: the might
> of shooting, reaching water. Dirt, manure
> are cheerful mire! We'll catch electric light
> in lustrous leaping sprays and tumbling pools,
> and stroll through cacti, boxwood, hothouse ferns
> and vines in shallow blackened mirrors. Schools
> of fish and floriculture give returns
> on my initial buy of Pierce's Park,
> established now as Pennsylvania ark.