Arthur,

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the poem more now that I know how the
meaning of pale and as a bonus will get an extra dose of fun when I consider
something or someone beyond the pale in the future. I did not know either
that the villanelle was the Everest of poetic forms. It certainly looks
difficult and explains in part why so many have chosen to launch themselves
against it.

Now there's a thing. I  have read DT's "Do not go gentle into that good
night" once or twice and have never thought much of it, which is probably
another way of saying that I have failed to notice in it what other people
notice. What makes it probably one of the best poems of the last 100 years?
Don't need you to write an essay or even a paragraph on this. You are far
too busy writing poems. Just a sentence hinting at some aspect of form or
content would be fine, for me to bear in mind when I next look at it.

BW

Colin


----- Original Message -----
From: "arthur seeley" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: New Sub: Castle: The villanelle


> The pale is a protected enclosure, generally surrounded by a wooden fence
> made of pales or palings. Beyond the Pale is beyond the limits of
civilised
> society, and originated in Ireland where the city of Dublin was surrounded
> by a wooden wall and beyond that was barbaric uncivilised folk. Or so they
> say.:
>
> "The government in Dublin castle put up fortifications, dug trenches, gave
> grounds towards the building of castles, appointed guards to hold the
> bridges and assigned watchmen to light warning beacons when danger
> threatened. The area around Dublin extended from Dundalk, inland to Naas,
> and south to Bray, and became known as the Pale. Apart from Carrickfergus
> castle, the province of Ulster was beyond the Pale."
>
> I'm glad you like the Villanelle form , Colin. It is the Everest of poetic
> forms so I understand. The difficulty lies in overcoming the potentially
> boring repeats of lines. The best is Dylan's " Do not go gentle into that
> Goodnight" and probably one of the best poems of the last 100 years.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Colin dewar" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 9:11 AM
> Subject: Re: New Sub: Castle: The villanelle
>
>
> > Arthur,
> >
> > One benefit of being in contact with this list is that I can hear lots
of
> > cool-sounding phrases (and the insight that comes with them). egg Israel
> and
> > Palestine are like Siamese twins, mutually dependent but contributing to
> > each others' suffering. egg the truly novel idea requires a truly novel
> > metaphor to bring it into the waking world  and a dozen others. Anyway
> about
> > the Villanelle: "this form is prone to a jarring effect which you have
> > offset nicely with enjambment". Heard that somewhere before? Makes me
> sound
> > like I know what I'm talking about.......Next time somebody is swearing
at
> > me I can bring it out by way of riposte.
> >
> > Anyway, to come to your poem my least favourite line is L2 of S1 because
> I'm
> > not sure what a "sheltered pale" is.
> >
> > My favourite lines are L2 of S5 (I like muscled fells) and 2 of 6 as I
> like
> > the association between extreme weather and battle.
> >
> >
> > BW
> >
> >
> > Colin
> >
> > Anyway, to come to your
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "arthur seeley" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 10:55 AM
> > Subject: New Sub: Castle: The villanelle
> >
> >
> > > The Castle: The Villanelle
> > >
> > >
> > > Though centuries have levelled tower and keep
> > > the walls can still define the sheltered pale.
> > > Where market, town and patterned meadows sweep
> > >
> > > the castle guarded clouds of drifting sheep
> > > that helped the town to prosper in its narrow vale
> > > though centuries have levelled tower and keep
> > >
> > > that thwarted envy and allowed the folk to reap
> > > and sell their harvest, labour to avail
> > > where market, town and patterned meadows sweep.
> > >
> > > Children of the builders in comfort sleep,
> > > the solace of its grey walls still prevails
> > > though centuries have levelled tower and keep
> > >
> > > and tourists come to view the noble heap
> > > snug in the muscled fells and rolling dale
> > > where market, town and patterned meadows sweep
> > >
> > > No longer need the folk from terror creep
> > > for only winter wars and gales assail
> > > the market, town and patterned meadow-sweep
> > > and centuries have levelled tower and keep.
> > >
> > >
>
>