Gary,

Please see below.

Colin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Blankenship [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 4:58 PM
> To:   [log in to unmask]
> Subject:      Re: The Wind Blind Cannot See(Gary)
> 
> Colin wrote:  You are reliant on natural images, at least some of the
> time.
> But
> natural images don't carry well. The human world is fairly consistent. A
> small block of sugar is pretty much the same thing everywhere, whether
> sweet, candy or lolly. But ecosystems vary in their species and from place
> to place and hence in the species that must be used to conjure up certain
> associations. Some are generic, such as wolf, trout and oak. Everyone
> knows
> what they are. But they are diminished through overuse. The choice is
> stark.
> Use a wide range of species and lose people from outside the region ( or
>         in the region but not interested in nature) or spend time
> describing
> how white and fluffy something looks and probably lose everyone. I would
> far rather someone just said "gannet" than spend a couple of pages
> describing what it looked like for the benefit of those who don't know. In
> my case I don't know what a madrona forest is. That's a shame on me. I
> should know. However in practice the result is that I am unable to guess
> what kind of stray a wolf might chase through it.
> 
>         It's the same with people and place names. Who is the intended
> audience? Can they be expected to know who Auden is?
> 
> *
> 
> Colin, I seldom comment on the comments I receive and try never to argue,
> but yours puzzles me.  Starting with "Natural images don't cary well" and
> ending with Auden.
> 
> I may be missing your point but I hear you dismiss everything from To a
> Skylark through Frost to Synder.  Sorry, most of what I like in poetry
> evokes something natural.  I firmly believe that writers should use the
> nature they know.  For me that will be madrona, the ring neck who lives in
> the back yard, and salal.  For others, it may be date palms or banyan.
> 
> But regardless, I'm not sure it matters what a wolf would chase through a
> madrona forest as much as the wolf is chasing something.
> 
> And Auden?  No, not everyone will or over time maybe fewer and fewer.  But
> imo, there are times when they need to not pass on by and figure out why.
> In this case, Auden the most often quoted poet after 911.
> 
> Thanks much for your line by lines.  The poem is considerable different
> now.
> 
> Gary.
> 
> 
> Dec Byron Sacre at: http://gardawg.homestead.com/gardawg.html... Writer's
> Hood at http://www.writershood.com/... Poets for Peace.... ¡Poemas sí,
> balas
> no!
        Gary,

        I was exploring an issue rather than stating an opinion. I don't
really have an opinion on it, still  less an impression of where the cut off
should be. The question is when does something become too
local/specific/topical/personal to be of interest to other people? I am glad
to hear how other people react to this question. Eventually I may be able to
make up my own mind. If I really exaggerate and fabricate an extremely local
reference I could say something like, Roni saw runics on Anacand Reach.
Supposing Roni is somebody who lived two doors along from the poet and
runics is the poet's private word for seagulls that nobody else shares and
has no means of finding out about and supposing Anacand Reach is the name of
the street in a town that nobody who lives elsewhere knows about and the
poem was written in a certain emotional state never made clear. Suppose
those things, how would you feel if you read such a poem?You could say that
it is too obscure or you could say that it was really interesting and the
novel content enhanced the poem. It depends on the reader. I have no
instinctive feel for how an intermediary position is reached and hoped to
provoke debate. Incidentally Roni etc is not a ref to your poem.

        I did not wish to dismiss any of the mentioned poets or your poem. 

        Natural images may be esoteric much more readily that we realize.
Does that matter? It depends on the audience.

        If you say that most of what you like in poetry is natural then you
are preaching to the converted. If you say that we have to write form the
nature that we know, ditto. I have tried writing from nature that I didn't
know (in other countries) and even I didn't like it once I got back. I guess
the locals wouldn't have seen that nature the same as me, either.

        Keep up the good work,


        Colin