on 8/12/03 11:15 am, naz bury at [log in to unmask] wrote:
> I like to think I am also a 'proper' nurse, even though I trained after SRN
> days, in the late 80's / early 90's! Joking aside, I do agree that if a
> person has received relevant training and feels competent to undergo a task,
> be it an injection or anything else, there is no reason why they should
> refuse to do so. I certainly would not be happy to have my workload
> increased because a colleague refused training in order to become competent.
> That said, if I knew that a colleague had a preference over something, I
> would endeavour be helpful and flexible, and I find that a compromise can
> generally be found, especially when working as part of a team.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Dunn"
> <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: BCG Vaccinations: dissent?
>
>
>> Dear All
>>
>> To add fuel to this particular fire, I cannot see for the life of me why
> any
>> nurse should refuse to give an intradermal injection provided they have
> been
>> given appropriate training and have been deemed competent in the
> technique.
>> When I trained as a 'proper' nurse (State Registered Nurse) 30 years ago,
>> Intradermal, Subcuaneous and Intramuscular injection technique was not
>> optional, it was a requirement of completion of the training, and was in
>> fact taught within the first 6 weeks of our nursing career in preliminary
>> training school. Refusal to carry out any of them would have led to
>> incomplete competancy and failure of the course. Has modern nurse
> training
>> gone so far into the realms of social sciences and academia that a basic
>> skill such as intradermal injection technique is no longer required? Any
>> person (not just a nurse or physician) is able legally to give any
>> injection, provided the person receiving it is aware of the status of that
>> individual, and that the individual has received appropriate training.....
>> it is not rocket science afterall..!!
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Fields Shirley" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:05 PM
>> Subject: Re: BCG Vaccinations: dissent?
>>
>>
>> I certainly wouldn't mind if any of the nurses declined to give,
> personally
>> I don't like intra dermal injections and have therefore always refused.
>>
>> Shirley Fields
>> OH Manager Burton NHS
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: diane romano woodward [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: 02 December 2003 15:02
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: BCG Vaccinations: dissent?
>>
>>
>> All seem to be very positive about nurses doing this.
>> Is this considered to be an extended role that one can chose not to do? I
>> remember opting out when working in the NHS some years ago as (I think) it
>> is possible to cause some disruption to the arm if they are actually
> immune.
>> On that basis I felt it was better to let OHP take responsibility, (they
> get
>> paid more..)
>>
>> For those of you in the NHS would you frown upon employing a nurse who
>> declined to do them, as long as they could do heaf tests, Hep Bs etc?
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Diane
>> (independent practitioner)
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Fields Shirley" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 10:49 AM
>> Subject: Re: BCG Vaccinations
>>
>>
>> Hi Chris (remember me)
>>
>> At Burton one of our nurses is currently undergoing training from the
> chest
>> clinic nurse to do BCG's. There is no reason why nurses cannot do this
>> procedure with adequate training.
>>
>> Say hi to Sally
>>
>> Shirley Fields
>> OH Manager
>> Burton NHS Trust
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Baldwin Chris (RFF) Occupational Health Nurse Advisor
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: 02 December 2003 10:01
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: BCG Vaccinations
>>
>>
>> Good morning everyone,
>> a question particularly for NHS colleagues. Do NHS Occupational Health
>> colleagues allow the vaccination to be nurse or doctor administered? your
>> comments and thoughts on this are appreciated.
>>
>> chris Baldwin
>>
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>
To add to the debate...
a cautionary tale ...I read a very interesting article written by Gillian
Howard which covered aspects of competent practice. She referred to a
scenario re an OHN stating that they did not feel competent to carry out a
nursing task. The duty of the employer would then be that they must give
the relevant training, if after this training the OHN is still not
competent to carry out the procedure then the employer would be within their
rights to take appropriate steps. Those steps could eventually result in the
termination of their contract. Unfortunately I do not have the article to
hand. Do any of the list subscribers have the reference? I think it was
published in the OH journal but can't even remember the year of publication.
Gillian, If you subscribe to the list can you enlighten us?
I suspect that the crux of the matter depends on the contract of employment.
if the employment contract states that immunisations are a stated job
requirement then the expectation is that with the appropriate training,
in-house if necessary, the OHN should be able to give those immunisations by
any route provided they have had appropriate training.
The above can be applied to any OH nursing procedure, particularly if the
post holder has specialist practitioner status.
Anne Harriss
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