Nice point Greta, however, if we do not give a PEQ to all prospective
employees how do we ensure that those employees that need one, based on a
risk assessment of their proposed employment, actually get one?
Some organisations, our own included, rely on local administrators to
complete the recruitment process, therefore, the dissemination of PEQ forms
is only as good as the particular administrator.
To ensure that those potential employees that may be placed at risk are
protected by a PEQ it is easier (and arguably safer) to give every preferred
candidate a form which can be discarded if not relevent.
Regards
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greta Thornbory" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: Pre-employment questionnaires
Kate et al
I agree with the fact that PEQs are part of health surveillance following
risk assessment and, as far as I can see, it is the only time that PEQs are
required.
Not so sure about the DDA - isn't this positive discrimination? The
definition of disability under the act is 'a physical or mental impairment
which has a substantial and long term adverse effect on a person's ability
to carry out day to day activities' and the act says that to discriminate
against such a person is wrong (except for the exempt jobs) - the employer
can ask about the disability and the ability to do the job so that they can
make reasonable adjustments to enable the person to do it - this maybe where
the OH service can help and advise. I cannot see that a PEQ for every
employee is necessary just incase someone may be disabled........
Greta
----- Original Message -----
From: Kate Venables
<[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pre-employment questionnaires
Greta - a very good point on evidence-based practice. When one stands
back - surely what can actually be justified is (a) questions designed
around risk-based health surveillance (eg asking people who will work with
animals if they are allergic to animals) and (b) questions designed around
the DDA. What is the point of anything else? Best wishes - Kate
>>> [log in to unmask] 12/07/03 11:11:32 >>>
Pre-employment questionnairesI think you are getting confused here about
confidentiality. An individual can tell anyone they like what is wrong with
them, their history, medical or otherwise. Only if they are told that that
information would be treated as 'medical in confidence' would it have to be
just that - kept in confidence by a healthcare professional.
Regarding the civil service I was just pointing out that a large UK
institution which includes such things as the Lord Chancellors Department
( the British Courts System) and HSE itself have all been using this system
since time immemorial ( I am not saying whether this is right or wrong -
just that it happens). I am amused that you are trying to change it in the
MOD for a number of reasons, but maybe you will succeed where others have
failed - including HSE because it seems to work. Is this evidence based
practice? What evidence is there that other systems are better? More
research has been carried out on Civil Service staff than almost any other
single group. The Whitehall 11 Study 2000 concluded their research by
saying that 'intervention at the level of work design, organisation and
management may reduce morbidity in working populations' - there is no
mention of pre-employment health assessment (unless for specific situations
where health surveillance is required).
A great deal of expensive OH professional time is spent on Pre employment -
again I ask what research indicates that the end justifies the means? and I
am not talking about areas where health surveillance is either statutory or
mandatory,
Greta Thornbory
Consultant, Occupational health and education
www.gtentreprises-uk.com
Phone: 01235 770156
Mobile: 0777 815 027
----- Original Message -----
From: mchardy
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pre-employment questionnaires
I have just caught up on all the comments/opinions/discussions re: above
subject.
I find it extremely disturbing that the practice of vetting of PEHQ by HR
seems to be acceptable to some OH practitioners even if there is guidance on
it within the British Civil Service as suggested by Greta.
As far as I am aware, under current laws, should someone decide to take
the breach of medical confidentiality to court, the employee would win hands
down & please correct me if I'm wrong.
Greta, for the past 4 nearly 5 yrs I work within the military & I provide
a service for civil servants as well as service personnel (not as
comprehensive for the civilians as it is for the servicemen & women) & I am
appalled at the practice of the civil service HR & their welfare system.
Prospective employees are asked to send their their completed job
applications & CV as well as the completed PEHQ to HR all together. There is
no mention to them that the people looking at their PEHQ are not health
professionals. Not only that, but they are not even sealed & marked "medical
in confidence" although it is claimed that the whole file is classed as
"medical" so the staff are trained not to gossip etc. Having met & tried to
work with some of the staff in HR, some have absolutely no idea about
medical confidentiality or other confidentiality for that matter, discussing
employees' health with managers etc etc. (Some HR staff are however very
discreet).
I have challenged this practice at the highest level within the Ministry
of Defence. As a result & with help from the Chief Civilian Nurse & Chief
Medical Officer within the MOD, an alternative comprehensive policy is being
looked at. There seems to be such resistance at their HR higher level that
the said policy is in its 13th draft !!!!!!
As a result of the local unit OH not being involved in the PEHQ, many
vulnerable people have been placed in jobs where their health is put at risk
for e.g. the asthma sufferer in a carpentry environment or working with
isocyanates.
I have found a way of working around this at my unit level (with some
resistance from the local HR) but it is still far from ideal. At least since
I have been in post, any OH medical notes we create are kept within our OH
Dept under correct security as in the Medical Records Act etc. I am
constantly trying to find better ways of working with HR but some of the
"old school" HR still resist change as they see us as meddling & encroaching
on their empire!
It is all boiling down to informing the employees of their rights and the
current HR practice & should they not be happy about it, they can take it
further. There are very strong grievance etc policies in place. However I am
also aware that as an advocate I may not be totally fulfilling my
responsibility. I continue to challenge practice!
Sorry to have gone on a bit but I do feel very strongly about this! By the
way-I fully support the competency and quality of PEHQ issues as per James
B.
Regards to all
Maudie
OHN Specialist
PS I am aware that other arrangements are allowed within the law for the
SME's etc who cannot afford to employ their own OH advisors
----- Original Message -----
From: Greta Thornbory
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: Pre-employment questionnaires
Paul et all the others who answered this query.
The British Civil Service has been asking for completed PEQs to be
returned to HR since time immemorial (and few civil servants sit in offices)
HR have guidance notes produced by OH professionals geared towards specific
job specifications and if the PEQ falls outside those guidelines it is
referred to an OH professional for further consideration. It seems to work
for the 600K civil servants employed at anyone time. Obviously some jobs
required statutory or mandatory consideration and these are dealt with
separately by the appropriate professionals. Just thought you might like to
know this interesting fact.
As so many of you seem to be into cost benefit analysis & exercises I
would be interested to find how many of you have actually carried out cost
benefit exercises on PEQs - does the end justify the means?
Greta Thornbory
Consultant, Occupational health and education
www.gtentreprises-uk.com
Phone: 01235 770156
Mobile: 0777 815 027
----- Original Message -----
From: Bradley, Paul
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 3:49 PM
Subject: Pre-employment questionnaires
Hello all,
Regarding pre-employment questionnaires. Can an employer request the
prospective employee to disclose clinical information about themselves on a
PEQ which then goes to HR department in the absence of a occupational health
department? Is this acceptable so long as the employer clearly states on
the PEQ that the information provided and thus held will not be subject to
medical confidentiality but privileged confidentiality in HR.
Any guidance would be gratefully appreciated.
Cheers
Paul Bradley
Occupational Health Adviser. iSome HR staff are however very discr
AMEC Group Ltd, Sandiway House Hartford Northwich CW8 2YA United
Kingdom
( 01606 881026 È 07739655392
? [log in to unmask]
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