I have learnt something about this list. People who disagree with me reply
to my postings publicly. People who agree with me reply to my postings in
private. I have received more private postings than public postings. Nuff
said.
>From: Miranda O'Brien <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Chartered Library and Information Professionals
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: politically incorrect ! <point of information> ??
>Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 14:32:21 +0100
>
>Some people obviously have loads of time on their hands.
>
>Miranda O'Brien
>KBR
>Information Resource Centre - Europe & Africa
>Tel +44 (0)1372 863146 Fax +44 (0)1372 863180
>E-mail : [log in to unmask]
>
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: john pateman [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: 01 May 2003 14:26
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: politically incorrect ! <point of information> ??
>
>I was talking about ISC which is a thoroughly democractic organisation.
>I
>was not talking about CILIP. Try taking a motion to a CILIP AGM (if you
>can
>get it on the agenda).
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Adrian Smith <[log in to unmask]>
> >Reply-To: Chartered Library and Information Professionals
> ><[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: politically incorrect ! <point of information> ??
> >Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 14:23:24 +0100
> >
> >What exaxctly is the mechanism envisaged for drafting & issuing such a
> >statement? Would it require CILIP to call an expensive extraordinary
> >general
> >meeting, or a postal ballot, or would it be a Motion passed at Council?
>Did
> >anybody propose such a Motion?
> >
> >Adrian Smith
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: john pateman [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >Sent: 01 May 2003 13:57
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: politically incorrect !
> >
> >
> >A joint statement against the war was published by ISC and the
>Progressive
> >Librarians Guild. An on line petition against the war was also
>circulated.
> >Dont let CILIP off the hook, Dan - they should be able to issue their
>own
> >statements on domestic and world issues which affect library workers,
>and
> >not hide behind arms-length organisations like ISC.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Bye, Dan J" <[log in to unmask]>
> > >Reply-To: Chartered Library and Information Professionals
> > ><[log in to unmask]>
> > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > >Subject: Re: politically incorrect !
> > >Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 10:59:48 +0100
> > >
> > >I'm reluctant to continue this thread, which now seems to be annoying
> > >people somewhat. On the other hand, I feel quite strongly about the
> > >role of my professional body in relation to my political ideas.
> > >
> > >As someone who is implacably opposed to US imperialism and to the
>tyranny
> > >of local despots in equal measure I have to say I disagree with
> > >John Pateman's wish that CILIP had taken 'a position' on the war on
>Iraq.
> > > Or, more precisely, that it had taken *his* position on the war
> > >on Iraq.
> > >
> > >It seems unlikely that CILIP, were it reflecting its members views,
>would
> > >have adopted a "Not in My Name"-type statement (a slogan I find
> > >cosily meaningless, since of course the War was not fought in our
>name,
> >but
> > >in the name of the Iraqi people) as John wanted at all. More
> > >likely it would have said something along the lines of "we don't much
> >like
> > >killing but we have to support our troops once they're there and
> > >anyway Saddam was a bad person etc". That's what demands to turn
>CILIP
> > >into a sectarian political movement of the liberal middle classes
> > >would have meant. I'm not sure I'd want to belong to CILIP in that
>case,
> > >and no doubt John would be rather unhappy too.
> > >
> > >It's highly unlikely, in fact, that CILIP could have come up with a
> > >position I could wholeheartedly agree with, since "Support our troops
>if
> > >they turn their guns on their officers and join the Iraqi people in
> > >establishing collective social control of the Iraqi oil industry;
> > >support efforts to assassinate Saddam by the Iraqi people; overthrow
>the
> > >counter-revolutionary despot Fidel Castro and establish libertarian
> > >Communism in Cuba...." (that one thrown in specifically to annoy
>John,
> > >sorry) would alienate just about everyone. We on the "left" should
> > >be under no illusion as to the popularity of some of our ideas at the
> > >moment.
> > >
> > >In fact, look at the statement CILIP has issued in the aftermath of
>the
> > >war. It, rightly and relevantly, supports efforts to restore
> > >library services to Iraq, but it also condemns Britain for not
>signing up
> > >to the Hague Convention on the Protection of Cultural Property in
> > >the Event of Armed Conflict. Most CILIP members, I imagine, would
> >agree
> > >with that, and would deplore the failure of US-UK troops to
> > >prevent looting. Critics of intervention like (otherwise excellent)
> > >journalist Robert Fisk now seem to be demanding that the US military
>go
> > >around rounding up looters and locking them up. But is that a
>position
> > >that a socialist should take? Certainly socialists of the anarchist
> > >stripe like myself cannot take that line Should people who opposed
>US
> > >military intervention then turn around and demand that the US
> > >military acts as a police force?
> > >
> > >So it's quite complex once you start asking CILIP to take a
>particular
> > >political line.
> > >
> > >The answer, of course, is for librarians/Information workers with a
> > >political interest to get together and work collectively to promote
>that
> > >political interest. Information for Social Change is one such group,
>and
> > >I'd suggest that is a better forum for such work than CILIP is. I
> > >don't recall if ISC issued any collective statement on the War -
>nothing
> >is
> > >on the website, at any rate. If it did, good. If it didn't,
> > >perhaps it should have.
> > >
> > >Dan
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: john pateman [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > > > Sent: 30 April 2003 18:10
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > Subject: Re: politically incorrect !
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Oppenheim (sorry, he started this practice of only using my
> > > > surname)is wrong when he says that I would like CILIP to
> > > > merge with the SWP. I am not a member of the SWP and I have
> > > > no time for them. But I am a member of CILIP and I did not
> > > > realise it was a charity. I thought it was a professional
> > > > association willing and able to speak out on matters of
> > > > domestic and international concern which affect its members.
> > > > Please correct me if I am wrong.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: Charles Oppenheim <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > >Reply-To: Chartered Library and Information Professionals
> > > > ><[log in to unmask]>
> > > > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > >Subject: Re: politically incorrect !
> > > > >Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:23:53 +0100
> > > > >
> > > > >It hasn't, though one CILIP member clearly would love this to
>have
> > > > >happened.
> > > > >
> > > > >Pateman stated that he hoped CILIP was big enough to accommodate
>all
> > > > >views. I trust that Pateman is big enough to accept that his
> > > > views are
> > > > >not necessarily those of the majority of CILIP members.
> > > > >
> > > > >I was and am totally opposed to the actions of the UK and US
> > > > >Governments in invading Iraq; I am also totally opposed to
>people
> > > > >trying to use my professional association to promote their
>political
> > > > >opinions. In any case, CILIP would lose its charitable status if
>it
> > > > >promoted political views.
> > > > >
> > > > >Charles
> > > > >
> > > > >Professor Charles Oppenheim
> > > > >Department of Information Science
> > > > >Loughborough University
> > > > >Loughborough
> > > > >Leics LE11 3TU
> > > > >01509-223065
> > > > >(fax) 01509-223053
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "DAMIAN CULLEN" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > >To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > >Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 10:45 PM
> > > > >Subject: politically incorrect !
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Could somebody tell me at what point in time CILIP merged with
>the
> > > > >Socialist
> > > > > > Worker Party ? I only joined recently but should
> > > > obviously have read
> > > > > > the small print.....
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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