I'm sure that E Dantes' remark was not meant to be a personal jibe at
Elspeth Hyams. If it had been, it would have been inaccurate as well as
offensive.
Its great that so many people are motivated enough to contribute to this
list, but I hope we can keep the discussions on a rational and civilised
level
:-)
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: Chartered Library and Information Professionals
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of e dantes
Sent: 07 February 2003 15:29
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Low pay again
I am thoroughly disgusted that Mike Morris' letter was not published. Fear
of redundancy often keeps people in low paid work. Conveniently enough,
redundancy was not an issue that you had to face after the LA/IIS merger.
>From: Elspeth Hyams <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Chartered Library and Information Professionals
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Low pay again
>Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:12:54 -0000
>
>Update has a policy of publishing letters that make new points. Mike's
>points have been reiterated on a number of occasions, and, what is more, by
>Mike himself and especially on these lists. We have covered the low pay
>debate before, though more extensively in Update's predecessor (the Library
>and Association Record) than Update itself. However, since numerically
>speaking the combined membership of CILIP is, substantially, the same, the
>editor and her team judged that the point of view had already been aired.
>
>Many people use the remarkable opportunities that exist within traditional
>library and information work as a platform to something else. That can
>benefit not only them, but the institutions or posts that they vacate,
>because it brings in new blood, while the individuals moving on take their
>expertise elsewhere to the benefit of the organisation that receives them.
>
>There are many people who have used remarkably rich experience within the
>educational library sector as stepping stones to new opportunities. Some
>of them we have profiled in Update.
>
>Perhaps the key element to financial 'success' in this profession is a
>willingness to move jobs and to identify promising opportunities. But
>that is true in any profession. If an individual finds a job that they
>love and want to stay in , then presumably, they are staying put, because
>the job satisfaction is worth more than the money and conditions elsewhere.
> A number of people have already said that job satisfaction in library and
>information work is high.
>
>Would anyone care to comment?
>
>Elspeth Hyams
>
>
> > ----------
> > From: Charles Oppenheim
> > Reply To: Chartered Library and Information Professionals
> > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 3:38 pm
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Low pay again
> >
> > Mike said " Well, one person in Oxford told me low pay didn't matter
>because all our husbands are dons." Presumably Mike was talking to a
>woman, and hence the quote.
> >
> > I wonder why CILIP Update declined to publish the original letter,
>which seemed to me to make a valid point. I'd prefer it if CILIP declined
>to accept advertisements for professional posts paid at below, say £19k.
> >
> > Charles
> >
> > Professor Charles Oppenheim
> > Department of Information Science
> > Loughborough University
> > Loughborough
> > Leics LE11 3TU
> > 01509-223065
> > (fax) 01509-223053
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Maria Gunn
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 3:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: Low pay again
> >
> > I want to know how someone called Mike has a husband?
> >
> > I'm not in Librarianship for the money. I always have believed
>that the most important thing is to be happy in your job, I mean we do
>spend a large proportion of our lives at work, so we might as well enjoy
>it!
> >
> > Maria
> >
> > At 14:30 31/01/2003 +0000, you wrote:
> >
> >
> > I do love these fast moving discussions.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > From: Mike Morris
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >
> > Sent: 31 January 2003 14:30
> >
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Subject: Re: Low pay again
> >
> >
> > In what way?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Finney, Emma P
> >
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 2:28 PM
> >
> > Subject: Re: Low pay again
> >
> >
> > Yes, drive does pay the mortgage.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > From: Mike Morris
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >
> > Sent: 31 January 2003 14:23
> >
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Subject: Re: Low pay again
> >
> >
> > Well, one person in Oxford told me low pay didn't
>matter because all our husbands are dons.
> >
> > Does "drive" pay the mortgage, then?
> >
> > M
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Finney, Emma P
> >
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 2:06 PM>
> >
> > Subject: Re: Low pay again
> >
> >
> > Do you think people decide to become librarians
>because of the pay ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Recently qualified with drive
> >
> > Em
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > From: Mike Morris
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >
> > Sent: 31 January 2003 12:06
> >
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Subject: Fw: Low pay again
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Mike Morris
> >
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 9:35 AM
> >
> > Subject: Low pay again
> >
> >
> > Since Update doesn't want to publish this I
>thought I'd share it with the list instead.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Mike Morris
> >
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 9:19 AM
> >
> > Subject: Letter for publication: Leaders article
> >
> >
> > I sometimes wonder if people like Sheila Corrall
>live on the same planet as me. Her article in L & I Appointments 6:1
>invokes the usual sub-literate committees (what is "isNTO", and why is it
>spelt like that?) and so forth agonizing over the seemingly intractable
>problem of attracting "leaders" in LIS. In the pages following her article
>we see job ads offering £22k for a Manager in Uxbridge, £19k in
>Gloucestershire and *graduate* assistant posts at £18k.
> >
> > Might there be an obvious reason here why anyone
>with an ounce of drive would not choose librarianship?
> >
> >
> >
> > [letter ends]
> >
> > Incidentally I hear Polly Toynbee recently
>suggested £20k was the median wage across the UK and anyone living below
>that was effectively living near the poverty line.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Maria Gunn
> > Readers Services Librarian
> > Advocates Library
> > Parliament House
> > Edinburgh
> > EH1 1RF
> >
> > Tel: 0131 260 5683
> > Fax: 0131 260 5663
> > Email: [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
>**********************************************************************
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