Sorry this is a rather late response

This type of problem is precisely what the Digital Object Identifier (DOI)
is designed to avoid.  Whatever happens to the URL for a journal (or
article), the DOI remains the same and is simply redirected.

Sally


Sally Morris, Secretary-General
Association of Learned and Professional Society Publishers
South House, The Street, Clapham, Worthing, West Sussex BN13 3UU, UK

Phone:  01903 871686 Fax:  01903 871457 E-mail:  [log in to unmask]
ALPSP Website  http://www.alpsp.org


----- Original Message -----
From: "Lesley Crawshaw" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: Keeping Journal URLs Up to Date - How To Spot the Changes - An
Example from Ingenta Select and Multilingual Matters and its Channel View
Imprint


> Hi Eric,
>
> The URLs that I was citing were the ones that appeared in the address
> bar on my browser i.e. that I ended up at from our "stable" but
> incorrect URLs -  our OPAC URLs don't include load balancing and user
> customization.
>
> Sometimes from we were redirected to the correct and up to date page for
> that title, but sometimes we were sent to an out of date page for that
> title. Whether you ended up at the "correct" page by being redirected
> for that title seems to depend on which server you are lucky to be
> redirected to.
>
> For IRGEE this was the URL on our OPAC (not mustafa.ingentaselect.com
> which I inadvertently mistyped as the stable URL for this title):
>
> http://www.ingentaselect.com/rpsv/cw/mm/10382046/contp1.htm which has
> now been changed to:
>
> http://www.ingentaselect.com/rpsv/cw/cv/10382046/contp1.htm
>
> For the Journal of Sustainable Tourism this was the URL on our OPAC:
>
> http://www.ingentaselect.com/rpsv/cw/mm/09669582/contp1.htm which has
> now been changed to:
>
> http://www.ingentaselect.com/rpsv/cw/mm/09669582/contp1.htm
>
>
> Surely I have made a fair criticism in this particular example. These
> problems may seem minor and insignificant, but if you are sending your
> users to out of date pages, it's not a very good advertisement.
>
> And yes of course we should be encouraging services to provide good
> documentation for librarians, but that doesn't mean that where there are
> problems with a service that it shouldn't be open to criticism. Surely
> this is all useful feedback and alerts those librarians who may also
> have incorrect links that could cause problems for their users.
>
> And yes it would be great if the merry go round of merging, demerging,
> acquisition etc. might slow down to make all our lives easier, but then
> pigs might fly!
>
> Cheers
> Lesley
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Lesley Crawshaw, Faculty Information Consultant,
> Learning and Information Services,
> University of Hertfordshire, Hatfield, AL10 9AB UK
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> e-mail: [log in to unmask]
> phone:  01707 284662      fax: 01707 284666
> web: http://www.herts.ac.uk/lis/subjects/natsci/ejournal/
> list owner: [log in to unmask]
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: An informal open list set up by the UK Serials Group
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eric Hellman
> Sent: 19 June 2003 15:38
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Keeping Journal URLs Up to Date - How To Spot the Changes -
> An Example from Ingenta Select and Multilingual Matters and its Channel
> View Imprint
>
>
> I had a look at our coverage for IRGEE.
>
> Ingenta does a rather nice job of providing information on their titles
> and on their linking. You can have them send you files on a monthly
> basis by e-mail. see http://www.ingentaselect.com/opacs.htm
> In the case of IRGEE, the recommended URLs are
> http://www.ingentaselect.com/nw=1/rpsv/cw/cv/10382046/contp1.htm and
> http://www.ingentaselect.com/rpsv/cw/cv/10382046/contp1.htm These URLs
> work.
>
> The ingenta select publishing system uses redirects to accomplish load
> balancing, user customization, while at the same time providing stable
> urls. The urls that you cite include session parameters and circoumvent
> the loadbalancing, so it seems a bit unfair to me to complain that they
> aren't stable.
>
> I know it can be disorienting to have a publishing service provide good
> documentation for e-librarians. Seems to me that we should be
> encouraging similar services to do as good a job as ingenta does. Now if
> only we could get them to stop the merging, acquiring and rebranding.
>
> Eric
>
>
> At 9:56 AM +0100 6/19/03, Lesley Crawshaw wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >I don't think that we can be the only ones struggling to keep the
> >ejournal URLs on our OPACs up to date. Although we are out to tender
> >for a link resolver and portal system and will be looking at serial
> >management systems in the near future, at present we have to do it the
> >old-fashioned way i.e. by hard graft. Other times we spot problems
> >purely by a chance encounter, as in the following example.
> >
> >We have had online access through Ingenta Select (and its previous
> >incarnation Catchword) ever since early 1999 to 6 journals published by
>
> >Multilingual Matters, or is it Channel View Publications, its imprint?
> >Strangely enough this is significant because the URLs we have on our
> >OPAC for two of its titles, are no longer working, and all because the
> >mm in the URL for the publisher Multilingual Matters has changed to cv
> >for its imprint Channel View Publications.
> >
> >It's not the first time subtle changes in publisher imprints on Ingenta
> >Select have caused us problems, we had some problems a long while back
> >when Taylor and Francis reorganised some of its titles within its
> >imprints, causing a change in the publisher code used in the URL. We
> >also had some problems when Sage changed some of its journals codes,
> >and links stopped working.
> >
> >I almost didn't notice that there had been a change because there was
> >an automatic redirection in place on Ingenta Select for the Journal of
> >Sustainable Tourism, one of the Channel View Imprints on my first
> >attempt. Once again it depends on which server one ends up on as to
> >whether a redirect is in place to take you to the up to date content
> >for this title.
> >
> >It was only when I checked International Research in Geographical
> >Education (IRGEE), that I ended up on Ingenta Select on a page where
> >the latest volume was Volume 10 Issue 1 2001!! There was no redirection
>
> >for this title when I tried it, and the URL in the address bar was
> >still showing the publisher as mm not cv as one might expect. My first
> >question was has this journal ceased or is it running behind schedule?
> >When I changed the mm for cv I got taken to the correct page where the
> >latest volume was Vol. 11(2) (2002)
> >
> >Having reported problems with servers on Ingenta Select not always
> >having the same content previously, it seemed that I was encountering a
>
> >similar problem and once again it appeared to be that some servers (or
> >one at least) were not redirecting the link to the correct up to date
> >page for that title. I have now reported this problem to ingenta
> >select, so it may be sorted by the time you check some of these links.
> >
> >If I end up on the following servers there is no redirect in place for
> >IRGEE and I end up on an out of date page:
> >
> >http://isacco.ingentaselect.com/vl=12676153/cl=11/nw=1/rpsv/catchword/m
> >m
> >/10382046/contp1.htm
> >
> >Or
> >
> >http://konstanza.ingentaselect.com/vl=3772318/cl=35/nw=1/rpsv/catchword
> >/
> >mm/10382046/contp1-1.htm
> >
> >Or
> >
> >http://mustafa.ingentaselect.com/vl=1066404/cl=38/nw=1/rpsv/catchword/m
> >m
> >/10382046/contp1.htm
> >
> >If I end up on the following servers for the Journal of Sustainable
> >Tourism there is no redirect for this title and once again I end up on
> >an out of date page where the latest issue for this journal is Vol.
> >9(4)
> >(2001) rather than Vol 19(5) (2002):
> >
> >http://isacco.ingentaselect.com/vl=13145285/cl=29/nw=1/rpsv/cw/mm/09669
> >5
> >82/contp1.htm
> >
> >When did this change happened, well it must have been in 2002 judging
> >by the content of the out of date page. So are we the only ones that
> >didn't spot this? No!
> >
> >I then searched COPAC (http://www.copac.ac.uk/) to see if they had
> >correct links for IRGEE. Only Birmingham had correct link for this
> >title on its catalogue, all the others had mm rather than cv, in some
> >cases they got redirected, in other cases they didn't.
> >
> >I then searched COPAC for Journal of Sustainable Tourism to see if they
> >had correct links. Not one had the correct electronic link to this
> >resource, although some got redirected.
> >
> >One concern about some of the entries on COPAC was that they were lots
> >of different URLs for these titles, some linking to specific servers,
> >some linking to www.catchword.com (which is still working), so with
> >extraneous material in the URL that isn't needed.
> >
> >
> >This episode raises a number of questions:
> >
> >1. It appears to be a bit of a hit or miss affair, if one is using mm
> >in the URL, that one gets redirected to the correct and up to date site
>
> >for this title. It can't be very impressive for the users to end up on
> >a site which hasn't been updated for over a year. Not a good advert for
>
> >ejournals.
> >
> >2. Who is the publisher of these titles? Is it Channel View
> >Publications, Multilingual Matters or Multilingual Matters and Channel
> >View Publications? Is the publisher aware that this change means some
> >of us are being directed to old content, which is not publicity for
> >these titles. Why make that particular change in the first place?
> >
> >3. When are these problems with some of the Ingenta Select servers not
> >being in synch going to be resolved? For those of us checking titles,
> >how can we be sure we are seeing the latest content?
> >
> >4. How are we to be kept up to date with these subtle changes? How long
> >does a redirect stay in place?
> >
> >Finally what is the correct URL for these titles:
> >
> >IRGEE should be
> >http://mustafa.ingentaselect.com/rpsv/cw/cv/10382046/contp1.htm
> >
> >Journal of Sustainable Tourism should be
> >http://www.ingentaselect.com/rpsv/cw/cv/09669582/contp1.htm
> >
> >I hope this all makes sense and apologies if it is a little
> >long-winded.
> >
> >Cheers
> >Lesley
> >
> >
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >Lesley Crawshaw, Faculty Information Consultant,
> >Learning and Information Services,
> >University of Hertfordshire, Hatfield, AL10 9AB UK
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >e-mail: [log in to unmask]
> >phone:  01707 284662      fax: 01707 284666
> >web: http://www.herts.ac.uk/lis/subjects/natsci/ejournal/
> >list owner: [log in to unmask]
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> --
>
> Eric Hellman, President                            Openly Informatics,
> Inc.
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