I think the whole business of payment by the hour is encouraging mediocrity. 
Do the job quickly and efficiently - earn less! Why don't cash strapped 
businesses like this, just offer £1600 for the job? They might get an 
experienced GIS pro who'll do a good job in 10 days (maybe split over two 
months and combined with a couple of similar jobs) and everybody's happy!

Just a thought.


>From: Richard Pope <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Richard Pope <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: We all have to start somewhere - RE GIS technician
>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:27:51 +0100
>
>It would also help if there was an effective professional association to 
>argue on the behalf of us!
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: The free list for all gis job announcements 
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Andrew Bent-Marshall
>Sent: 10 July 2003 10:41
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: We all have to start somewhere - RE GIS technician
>
>
>This discussion seems to have been knocking around for some time now. Yet, 
>to me, the solution is quite simple.  If you are happy to work for this 
>price, whether as a stepping stone or not, then apply for the job.  If you 
>think the job/pay is beneath you, then don't apply for it - wait for 
>something else.
>
>The company concerned may be satisfied with the quality of work they can 
>get for £6 an hour, they may not.  If they are satisfied then fair enough, 
>why should they pay more when they don't have to?  If they are not 
>satisfied with the quality of work they will realise pretty quickly that 
>they need to offer more in order to get the people/quality they require.
>
>By the way, as a general "Environmental Management" post-graduate with a 
>few GIS modules under my belt I did six months as a poorly paid GIS temp.  
>Without it however, I would not have got my first full time GIS job, which, 
>in turn, would not have lead to my move into Contaminated Land work...for 
>which I am now an acting Principal Officer (having more than doubled my 
>salary in 3 years).   We've all got to start somewhere so I wouldn't knock 
>that first 'foot-in-the-door' opportunity too much.
>
>Andy
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Laine Skinner [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: 10 July 2003 10:09
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: We all have to start somewhere - RE GIS technician
>
>
>Although I tend to agree with your general view, this is in the context of 
>a position advertised at £6 per hour. This is a skilled job requiring 
>someone with 6 months experience. I believe many skilled graduates (in any 
>geo- related discipline) will see this salary as a joke. Someone without a 
>degree, straight from A-levels with some experience in GIS related fields 
>would also see this as an underpaid job. Perhaps not to the same extent as 
>a skilled grad., but along the same lines.
>
>More importantly, if I outsourced this work for my company, I would be 
>particularly worried about the 'quality' of the work which may be completed 
>by offering a post at this level. As you point out, this is probably a 
>critical stage of the process and fundamental to the overall quality and 
>success of the GIS.
>
>I agree that any candidate for this position would only be looking to use 
>this post as a quick stepping stone - which is not the sort of attitude for 
>ANY job - if you are looking for quality in the final product.
>
>I do not think the question concerning whether or not this job and salary 
>is 'beneath' anyone - it is what sort of quality can the employer expect by 
>offering this type of wage. Maybe they will be lucky this time round and 
>get a good person in, but as a general business practise to offer such a 
>low wage? At some point quality will suffer.
>
>
>Laine
>
>
>
>On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 09:31, Mr O. J. Tomlinson wrote:
> > Anthony
> > Not all people who want to work in GIS are GIS graduates. Some have
> > degree's in Geo related areas (with perhaps a couple of modules of GIS
> > and a project under their belts) and would see the post advertised as
> > one which did not make to many demands in terms of specific GIS
> > requirements, but offered a way into the GIS industry for those with
> > some experience. The salary may not be great and may not appeal to
> > those who clearly see such a job and salary as beneath them, but many
> > good graduates will see it as an opportunity and a quick stepping
> > stone to better things - which these days is the major route of career
> > progression. You may also wish to remind yourself (as someone based in
> > academia) that you are given a great deal of freedom and support to
> > develop your skills and expertise at little or no cost, which is a
> > luxury many employers or individuals can no longer easily afford. I do
> > agree however that the GIS industry faces the paradox that what are
> > often the most critical jobs on which quality is based are usually the
> > worst paid in the industry.
> >
> > Oliver Tomlinson
> > Senior Lecturer in GIS and Remote Sensing (formerly an untrained
> > monkey) University of Derby
> >
> > To unsubscribe or modify your gis-jobs settings, please visit:
> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/gis-jobs
>--
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>Dr Laine Skinner
>
>Department of Geography,                Yr Adran Ddaearyddiaeth,
>University of Wales: Swansea,           Prifysgol Cymru:  Abertawe,
>Singleton Park,                         Parc Singleton,
>Swansea, SA2 8PP, UK.                   Abertawe, SA2 8PP, Cymru, UK.
>
>Tel/Ffon:  +44 (0)1792 513163
>Fax/Ffacs: +44 (0)1792 295955
>http://www.swan.ac.uk/geog/
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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