Oh goody! A discussion on hunting! I do hope Dr. T. weighs in.


>
Wayne:>Firstly, on foxes - I can't see any reason why populations need to be
controlled. If the JNCC or English Nature (statutory wildlife bodies) decide
that populations do need to be controlled, then I would expect them to be
responsible for any cull and I might be happy with that kind of situation,
if their reasoning was sound. I can't see how this should be the
responsibility of ordinary members of the public, whether or not they're
wearing red jackets and blowing horns.
>

sb here: The claim that using dogs and horses (and wearing red jackets and
blowing horns) controls fox populations is probably a red herring. But I
think the response is, "So what?" Where is it written that hunting had to be
justified by population control? This is one of those issues the hunting
community has brought on itself by unsupported claims. After 30+ years in
wildlife management I am more or less convinced that hunting as a means to
"control" populations is mostly a myth. But again, so what?

Wayne:>On hunting in general - it is the animal being hunted on which the
issue turns (imo) and the sustainability of that animal's population, mixed
with the notion of humans' need. That is, there must be a justifiable need
for taking the animal (eg, food) and the sustainability of the animal's
population must not be threatened by its being hunted. Thus, I see no
problem with shooting wood pigeons for food, provided that populations are
monitored and that all is well on that score.
>

sb here: Why is it necessary to show a "justifiable need"? Anthropologists
and archeologists tell us the humans, and proto-humans, have been hunting
for millions of years. That seems, IMHO, justification enough. Take another
angle on it Wayne. How much of your daily life is taken up with activities
for which you can show a 'justifiable need.? It's Sunday so I'll probably be
watching Millionaire Dope Addicts beat up on each other (we call it the
NFL). Do I 'need' to watch them? Do they 'need' to do it (it's called
'Professional Football')? On what basis do we justify a bunch of steroidal
enhanced behemoths going out on a field and knocking each other senseless in
the pursuit of a oddly shaped ball? But more people will sit and watch,
either on TV or in person than will be out hunting, and it is hunting season
here in North America. So? So What?


Wayne;>On hunting with dogs - this really doesn't seem to be the most
effective method of hunting - surely a high-velocity rifle would be
preferable?>

sb here: Actually I suspect that the use of dogs is probably more effective
than a rifle. Foxes are small, quick, and secretive. Not the sort of brute
that it is easy to shoot.

Wayne;>But if these people insist on adopting that method, can we not put
this insistance (sic) to better use & allow the hunting (with dogs) of say,
grey squirrels or domestic cats? That is, an activity which has a positive
ecological outcome. Failing that, could not the dogs hunt another specially
bred dog, thus allowing the continuance of this traditional sport, but with
minimal ecological impact?>

sb here; Wayne, is there 'ecological impact' in fox hunting? I've never
heard that there was. Most of what I read indicates that fox are very common
and not in the least under population pressure in GB. Here in the US there
is good evidence that Red Fox
(http://www.baa.duke.edu/companat/Natural%20History/fox/Fox%20natural%20history.htm)
is more abundant now than historically, especially in disturbed habitats,
such as cities.

Wayne;>If the huntsmen/women don't agree to this latter suggestion, doesn't
that suggest that their real underlying motivation is an irrational and
unjustifiable persecution of foxes?>

sb here: No. It does not follow. I'm especially interested in why you think
'persecution' of foxes can or would be a motivation? Isn't fox hunting all
full of cultural significances and ritual? I'm not sure I would enjoy racing
about the country on a horse, jumping hedges, that sort of thing, but I can
see how someone would enjoy it.

Wayne, I think you need to look deeper into the motivations of and for
hunting. As long as you trivialize the motivations and demonize the
participants you will probably fail to understand the issue.

Gee, this was fun!
Steven

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