-------- Original Message --------
Subject: VICTORIA Digest - 4 Nov 2003 to 5 Nov 2003 (#2003-99)
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, November 6, 2003 5:00 am
To: Recipients of VICTORIA digests <[log in to unmask]>
There are 17 messages totalling 494 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. F Cayley Robinson
2. Victorian article references (2)
3. Victorian Article references (2)
4. "brown like an old fiddle"
5. Ravel
6. On the genius of woman (4)
7. Last Set of Queries
8. comments re Longman anthology ? (4)
9. partant pour la syrie
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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:13:18 +1030
From: Elizabeth <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: F Cayley Robinson
I'm interested in F Cayley Robinson (1862-1927), an English artist who
was influenced by Burne-Jones and later by Puvis de Chavannes. He also
worked as a theatre designer, in particular for the production of
Maeterlinck's Bluebird at the Haymarket Theatre in 1909.
I would appreciate any information or leads to critical articles on this
painter.
Elizabeth Guster
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:24:35 -0000
From: Tony Ward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Victorian article references
"A murderer called 'Dove'" - William Dove was tried at York Assizes in
July 1856 for poisoning his wife with strychnine. He pleaded insanity
but was convicted after the medical evidence for the defence was
contemptuously rejected by the judge, Baron Bramwell. J. F. Stephen
gives a detailed account of the trial in an appendix to A General View
of the Criminal Law (1863) and also in his History of the Criminal Law
of England (1883). For a more recent account see Roger Smith, Trial by
Medicine (1981), pp. 134-7.
Tony Ward
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:07:21 -0000
From: Chris Willis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Victorian Article references
Hi!
Andrew wrote:
> Gilles de Retz would simply be disgusting in a modern novel.
There's been some speculation as to whether de Retz (aka de Rais) was
actually guilty. He and his associates were hanged at Nantes in 1440,
but the trial had been held in camera and it's likely that some of the
witnesses (including de Retz himself) were tortured. Tortured or not,
his confession is open to doubt. Under French law at the time, if he
confessed, his family could still inherit his wealth. If he didn't, and
was found guilty, it would all be confiscated by the State. As being
found guilty was pretty much a foregone conclusion, it was in his
interests to confess.
He had rapidly risen to become the richest and most powerful man in
France, apart from the King, and it's been argued that the charges
against him were fabricated as part of a conspiracy to bring him down
before he became even more powerful. He was an easy target for
accusations of sorcery, as he had a dissolute lifestyle and was open
about his interest in alchemy and astrology.
Oh dear - this is all FAR more interesting than the work I'm supposed to
be doing! Back to the grind....
All the best
Chris
================================================================
Chris Willis
[log in to unmask]
www.chriswillis.freeserve.co.uk/
The human cost of war
www.iraqbodycount.org
"How come Blair's following our agenda? How come Blunkett's adopting
half our policies?" (Anne Widdecombe, The Guardian, 3 November 2003)
================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:24:11 -0000
From: Chris Willis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Victorian Article references
Hi!
Heather wrote:
> I'm not sure what would make this character more disgusting
> in 1866 than he was previously...
Presumably child sacrifice, devil-worship etc would have been
mentionable in a penny dreadful, but rather strong meat for a mainstream
novel of the 1860s. He sounds like the kind of character than even the
most imaginative of sensation novelists wouldn't dare invent!
All the best
Chris
================================================================
Chris Willis
[log in to unmask]
www.chriswillis.freeserve.co.uk/
The human cost of war
www.iraqbodycount.org
"How come Blair's following our agenda? How come Blunkett's adopting
half our policies?" (Anne Widdecombe, The Guardian, 3 November 2003)
================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:00:31 -0000
From: George Simmers <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "brown like an old fiddle"
.
> Sir George Beaumont, a British landscape painter from the
> early 19th century, said, 'A good picture, like a good fiddle,
> should be brown.' I don't know what the context was.
>
Constable didn't agree. I remember an anecdote about him throwing a
fiddle down on the grass and forcefully pointing out the difference in
colour. ______________________________________________
George Simmers
Snakeskin Poetry Webzine is at
http://www.snakeskin.org.uk
.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:55:04 -0000
From: Paul Lewis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ravel
Many thanks to those who have responded privately or otherwise to my
earlier queries. I am stuck on something else now. It sounds like a
Mastermind question but here it is
Between 1851 and 1855 when did the French actor Ravel (possibly Pierre
Alfred Ravel 1814-1857) visit London to act and what plays did he appear
in?
Any clues as to dates would be immensely helpful. I have been ploughing
through The Times with no success.
best wishes
Paul
Paul Lewis
Mobile 07836 217 311
Web www.paullewis.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:26:26 +0100
From: Ana =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mar=EDa?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Garc=EDa?=
=?iso-8859-1?Q?_Dom=EDnguez?= <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: On the genius of woman
Dear list,
I am interested in reading on C19th (especially, but not specifically,
scientific) views on female creativity and genius, the difference
between (female) imagination / (male) creativity, and related issues, as
well as contemporary studies on the subject.
Any idea where to start?
Many thanks in advance,
Ana Garcia
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:57:37 -0000
From: Michel Faber <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: On the genius of woman
Ana María García Domínguez wrote:
> I am interested in reading on C19th (especially, but not specifically,
> scientific) views on female creativity and genius, the difference
> between (female) imagination / (male) creativity, and related issues,
> as well as contemporary studies on the subject.
I'm sure you'd agree that no examination of female creativity can afford
to ignore the ways social structures have hampered the potential for
such creativity. One book that might be worth your attention is Germaine
Greer's 'The Obstacle Race'. It is an overview of female artists
(specifically painters) in pre-modern times and attempts to answer the
questions "Were there any great female painters and, if not, why not?"
Best wishes,
Michel Faber
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:07:56 +0000
From: Liz Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: On the genius of woman
Hi:
You should definitely take a look at Havelock Ellis's _Man and Woman_
(1894), which has a long discussion of male versus female genius.
Basically, Ellis makes the argument that genius is a biological anomaly
and that female geniuses are much, much rarer than male geniuses because
women are less variable organisms and thus less likely to deviate from
the average.
Here is a relevant quotation: “We must regard genius as an organic
congenital abnormality … and in nearly every department it is,
undeniably, of more frequent occurrence among men than among women. The
statement of this fact has sometimes been regarded by women as a slur
upon their sex; they have sought to explain it by lack of opportunity,
education, etc. It does not appear that women have been equally anxious
to find fallacies the statement that idiocy is more common among men.
Yet the two statements must be taken together” (366).
Following Max Nordau and others, Ellis thought that the physiological
abnormality that caused genius wasn't too different from the kind that
caused "idiocy," criminality, and so on. Ellis claims that “[women’s]
psychological timidity – for … the timidity of women has a
neuro-muscular basis – makes the impulse to crime more difficult,” but
continues, “women are protected by a quality which has its defects; it
makes the attainment of criminality difficult for them by also making
difficult the attainment of other forms of abnormal energy which are
more highly esteemed” (Man 353). Among such “highly esteemed” forms of
“abnormal energy,” he says, is genius.
Interestingly, acting was the one art in which Ellis thought women more
likely than men to have genius.
You should also look at Cynthia Eagle Russett's _Sexual Science: The
Victorian Construction of Womanhood_. She discusses the topic of female
genius, and refers to the female scientist Leta Stetter Hollingworth,
who “countered the charge that there were less geniuses among women by
claiming that their normal occupation is ‘housekeeping, a field where
eminence is not possible'” (171).
Hope that helps!
Liz
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:00:44 -0500
From: "Felluga, Dino" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: On the genius of woman
The best recent book I know of on this issue is Andrew Elfenbein's
_Romantic Genius: The Prehistory of a Homosexual Role_ (Columbia UP,
1999). Elfenbein is careful to discuss both male and female genius
throughout the work.
Dino Felluga
Purdue University
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:06:34 -0800
From: Sheldon Goldfarb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Victorian article references
There is also a brief account of the murderer William Dove in Richard
Altick's _Victorian Studies in Scarlet_ (1970), p. 298.
Sheldon Goldfarb
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:23:26 -0500
From: Patrick Scott <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Last Set of Queries
The Prayer Book used through into the 1970's was 1662 (with very slight
revisions for the name of the monarch etc.). The echo of its rhythms
lingers through to e.g PGWodehouse, John Betjeman, Barbara Pym, and
PDJames. The revised prayer book of 1928 (more high church in
liturgical structure, but even in revision essentially a pastiche of the
same language) was authorized by the church but rejected by the House of
Commons. Much of the text of 1662 remains in use in the Church of
England though slightly reordered in the Communion Service, as Series I
of the modern Prayer Book (where series II has modernized text).
The Prayer Book used in the Episcopal Church USA was revised soon after
the Revolution. The one used till fairly recently was a version of the
1928 prayer book, rather than 1662.
A funeral I attended last week made clear to me how tragic it was that
when the (Roman) Catholic church englished its liturgy in the 1960's
parochialism prevented its adoption of the historic text of the Anglican
translation. Its redundant new translations of well-known texts grate
excruciatingly and needlessly on the English ear (even more so than the
modernized series I texts of the CofE).
Patrick Scott
Associate University Librarian for Special Collections
& Professor of English,
Rare Books & Special Collections,
Thomas Cooper Library,
University of South Carolina,
Columbia, SC 29208, USA.
Tel: 803-777-1275
Fax: 803-777-4661, attn Dr Scott
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask] 11/02/03 04:22PM >>>
I can't help you with 1-6, but as for 7, I think the 1662 prayer book
remained the only authorized one in England until the early 20th
century.
According to this site:
http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/1689/BCP_1689.htm a
post-Restoration version was put together in 1689 which was not
published
until 1854. This 1689 version might possibly have been used in
churches
after 1854, then.
>
> 7) What would have been the prayer book used in the Anglican church
in the
> 1860s? Would it have been the Book of Common Prayer from the late
> eighteenth century?
>
> Many, many thanks--Tamar Heller
> [log in to unmask]
Elisabeth Rose Gruner
Women's Studies Coordinator
Associate Professor of English & Women's Studies
University of Richmond
Richmond VA 23173
Voice: 804/289-8298 Fax: 804-289-8313
mailto:[log in to unmask]
http://www.richmond.edu/~egruner
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:01:48 -0600
From: Natalie Houston <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: comments re Longman anthology ?
I'm considering using a different literature anthology for my Victorian
survey course next spring and wondered if any list members who had used
the Victorian volume from the Longman British Lit anthology for such a
purpose had comments to share -- positive or negative.
many thanks,
Natalie
****************************
Natalie M. Houston
Assistant Professor
Department of English
University of Houston
Houston, TX 77204-3013
email: [log in to unmask]
http://www.class.uh.edu/english/faculty/houston/
tel: 713-743-2970
fax: 713-743-3215
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:19:48 -0500
From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: comments re Longman anthology ?
I'm using the Longman anthology for a British literature survey course,
1800-present. I like the Longman because its introductions and overviews
are more accessible to sophomores than are the Norton's, and I generally
like the selections. However, the fiction selections in the Victorian
volume are disappointing. The few short stories included are not those I
would have chosen, and there is no discussion of realism. It privileges
a cultural studies approach, which can be either a plus or a minus,
depending on what you need. Despite its shortcomings, I think it would
be a good selection if you were also able to teach one or two novels.
Robin Barrow
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:04:39 EST
From: Tamar Heller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: comments re Longman anthology ?
I'm a big Norton fan, but I really like the Longman anthology. I
haven't used just the Victorian volume--I used the entire second vol.
for a Brit Lit survey. But I think the Victorian part would work well
(I must say that I have used the Norton Victorian volume for my Age of
Dickens class and do like that for the period from the 1830s through the
1860s). Some advantages of the Longman: more illustrations, a better
sense (I think) of cultural context; I like their "Perspectives"
sections which bring together clusters of excerpts on topics, including
travel and empire (the Norton is weaker on this topic). The Longman's a
little more into the non-canonical than the Norton; it has a nice
selection of popular Victorian short fiction, for example.
Tamar Heller
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:36:03 EST
From: Diana Poskrop <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: partant pour la syrie
Near as I can tell, the song was initially extremely popular -- too
popular for its own good! The website below has the lyric, the
song's history, a download for the score, plus a list of resources.
(Sorry, I know nothing about the novel.)
http://www.napoleon.org/en/fun_stuff/music/index.asp
Best,
Diana Poskrop
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In a message dated 11/4/03 10:44:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> >Does anyone know anything about the popularity of the song "Partant
> pour
> la
> >Syrie" in the 1850s/early 60s? I gather it was the anthem of the
> Second Empire in France, but what puzzles me is that Emily Eden uses
> people's fondness for the song as an index of the vulgarity and
> commonness of characters in her novel The Semi-Detached House (1859).
> What did the song do to develop such an invidious reputation? And
> why would it have been so popular in the first place?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:37:52 -0500
From: David Latane <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: comments re Longman anthology ?
Norton and Longman are dueling it out -- I'm teaching a 125 student
lecture class (Brit Lit Survey) and may have to provide cots and a camp
stove for the respective reps, who are not thrilled by my express
determination to flip a coin. But for a Victorian survey I'd use Mermin
& Tucker, Victorian Literature 1830-1900.
David Latane
------------------------------
End of VICTORIA Digest - 4 Nov 2003 to 5 Nov 2003 (#2003-99)
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