JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC Archives

POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC  2003

POETRYETC 2003

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Impossible Tasks

From:

Chris Jones <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 17 May 2003 13:37:55 +1000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (148 lines)

I finished the first draft yesterday and posted copies for comments. So
exhausted I was wobbling on my feet. but that is to be expected from a
mad galliard dancing across the spatial history of Western thought from
Plato, Aristotle, Spinoza, Leibniz, Kant, Hegel, Nietzsche, Einstein,
Weiner, Lacan, Tomkins, Derrida, Deleuze and Guattari and with
(absolute)entropy, Prigonine flipping over the edge of infinite space
into pure time plane mystic outside the outside of the limited
durational time of reading where there is no outside the text, passing
by the limits of deconstruction. Only a god can save us now, as I doubt
Heidegger would be much use.

The contractual arrangement inverted. Mere mortal referees having to
sift through 54 footnotes in 5400 words not as a dead academic apparatus
but active device to read the mind of God: These referenced footnotes
could be read as an archeology or as rhizomatic nomadic distributions
interspersed between a white wall of signification and blackholes of
subjectivication in a face system being queerly transversed.

I simply had to include Dean Kiley on deconstruction in the footnotes:
See also Dean Kiley, “Elementary, My Dear: Ross Watson and Queer
Gloss/es”  'All that hard work by Paul Taylor, Judy Annear, Adrian
Martin and Paul Foss, doing vanilla-Derrida deconstructions of the
mimetic original/copy ratio logics ( A+:B-, A-:B-, A+B, A=B, A/B=C)' 
http://www.arts.monash.edu.au/visarts/globe/issue4/dktxt.html

(Vanilla is gay slang for ordinary uninteresting conjugal style normal
homosex as distinct from leather, S&M, fist fucking, daisy chain, drug
fueled orgies.. that's real sex!)

I may have moved a bit too quickly with a gothic modernist queer
wrenching in taking the Oedipal trigonometry in the logic of Lacan's
objet (a) into euclidean space by virtue of the sine relation between
divergence and into non-euclidean space in one sentence, but let the
referees puzzle over the logic... that should take at least a week. Let
them empty the lake with a spoon!

Why I am destiny...

Dionysos against the Crucified; you have been understood!

-Have I been understood?- Homosex against the Crucified...

best and many joyous times,

Chris Jones.

On Fri, 2003-05-16 at 01:42, Rebecca Seiferle wrote:
> Hi Christopher,
> 
> Thanks for your post, and yes, you are right to draw attention to the more that my sentence left out. I particularly like your phrase about the social contract of impossible tasks: "the effect is to link two worlds through the relation of impossibility." Exactly so. 
> 
> Of course, in fairy tales, the impossible is often the task through which one must go to obtain the possible. The one, assigning the task does so expecting it to be impossible so that the other will be prevented from obtaining the possible. Whereas the one undertaking the task does so, out of such desire for the possible, that the impossibility of the task is undertaken with hope or hopelessness, but still undertaken. It's a social contract between very different scales of value and power, the king or queen who commands the lake be drained with a spoon, the girl or boy (usually rustic) who takes up the task. Hence, your remarks on the scale of value, I think, since, at the beginning of the contract, there is no sense in which the one assigning and the one assigned are of equal value. The definition of the task, along with the definition of what is possible or not, resides with the one assigning the task. The one taking on the task really in a sense 'has no choice,' since to not undertake the task would be to remain valueless and without possibility and so undertaking the task, for all it may seem impossible, is the only hope. 
> 
> And, yes, hopes lost are among the worst of things, except perhaps having no hope at all. 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Rebecca
> 
> Rebecca Seiferle
> www.thedrunkenboat.com 
>  
> -------Original Message-------
> From: Christopher Walker <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: 05/14/03 05:31 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Impossible Tasks
> 
> > 
> > <snip>
> ... an impossible task [...] like those tasks in 'fairy' tales, the whole
> point being to make certain that no one ever returns from the lake one was
> supposed to be draining with a spoon. [Rebecca S]
> <snip>
> 
> A little more to it than that.
> 
> Because impossible tasks frequently form one side of a social contract
> which
> one party is willing but unable and the other able but unwilling to
> perform,
> the effect is to link two worlds through the relation of impossibility.
> Various versions are possible: elegant refusal of a suitor, welching on a
> deal or what happens in Shakespeare's version of how to do business with a
> member of the Venice ghetto (from which the word derives).
> 
> Two other points might be noted.
> 
> Acceptance of this sort of bargain means accepting the truth of two
> presuppositions: that the impossible task can be done (at some possible
> world) and that the promise or obligation is a true one (at _this_ world).
> We tend to accept the truth of presuppositions unless they're egregiously
> false.
> 
> Since *value* is frequently proportionate to *difficulty*, there's also a
> scaling problem: *harder = better* until, that is, you reach the end of
> the
> scale, where *impossible* (like infinity) disobeys the rules. Hope, in
> this
> sense, may be better than fulfilment but hopes dashed (because they've
> become impossible) may be the worst thing of all.
> 
> CW
> > 
> -------Original Message-------
> From: Christopher Walker <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: 05/14/03 05:31 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Impossible Tasks
> 
> > 
> > <snip>
> ... an impossible task [...] like those tasks in 'fairy' tales, the whole
> point being to make certain that no one ever returns from the lake one was
> supposed to be draining with a spoon. [Rebecca S]
> <snip>
> 
> A little more to it than that.
> 
> Because impossible tasks frequently form one side of a social contract
> which
> one party is willing but unable and the other able but unwilling to
> perform,
> the effect is to link two worlds through the relation of impossibility.
> Various versions are possible: elegant refusal of a suitor, welching on a
> deal or what happens in Shakespeare's version of how to do business with a
> member of the Venice ghetto (from which the word derives).
> 
> Two other points might be noted.
> 
> Acceptance of this sort of bargain means accepting the truth of two
> presuppositions: that the impossible task can be done (at some possible
> world) and that the promise or obligation is a true one (at _this_ world).
> We tend to accept the truth of presuppositions unless they're egregiously
> false.
> 
> Since *value* is frequently proportionate to *difficulty*, there's also a
> scaling problem: *harder = better* until, that is, you reach the end of
> the
> scale, where *impossible* (like infinity) disobeys the rules. Hope, in
> this
> sense, may be better than fulfilment but hopes dashed (because they've
> become impossible) may be the worst thing of all.
> 
> CW
> >
> 

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

May 2024
April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager