These days I am actually more comfortable as Bada Shanren than as a
psychologist to tell you the truth. but i was sincere in offering to pass
comments to Jamie if I have permission to do so. I know he is very aware of
the use people have made of his work and cautions against poets and
educators jumping into using writing as therapy. jeffry berman has a couple
of recent books on the topic if anyone wants to follow up on it.
his hasn't been updated lately but might be of intrest:
http://www.metaphormetonym.com/
tom bell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anny Ballardini" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: Poetry & Psych
> Hi Tom and everybody,
>
> I can understand all the points of view here. And as Rebecca says I am
also
> interested in the scientific aspect of it all. I think there is a natural
> aversion to statistics especially when they deal with feelings. I will
speak
> using "I", but I think this is a we, because I am scared of the possible
use
> of a scientific knowledge on the emotional side of Man. Those "statistics"
> are leveling the world, chopping off this and that, roughing it all around
> as if it was all the same dough.
>
> I can also see the position of Geoffrey who says: "Not me!", You won't get
> me in there. And this is another strong side I have. In the sense that I
can
> write:
> "The sky is made of wood"
> and I am fully responsible of it. And give it there, if you wish you
believe
> it, otherwise not. And I am free enough to live even if you do not want to
> believe it, or read it.
>
> I can also see the nature of Tom Bell who idealistically approached
> Psychology, as we all did - in a lesser degree.
>
> The point is not against Tom Bell or psychology in general, it is against
> the possible misuse of it, as well as against the limits of science in
> general, and poets, in their "madness" (as Douglas previously said) have
> sometimes been able to save themselves from failure for centuries and
> centuries.
>
> Anny
>
> From: "tom bell" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
> > this oddly enough reminds me of the charges long ago made about the use
of
> > the Rorschach. interestingly enough the works being discussed could
> > mtaphorically be seen as inkblots where people seem to seize on and then
> > reject more sensational aspects.
> >
> > in response to your other post i have to saythat i was interested in
> > psychology which led to my study of it but taking advanced statistics
was
> a
> > rude awakening to reality as i barely passed the course.
> >
> > i apologize for the argumentive tone here, by the way. i'm not sure if
> I'm
> > having a negative day or feel like I've been put in the position of
> > defending something i didn't create - just pointed it out as an example.
> >
> > tom bell
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rebecca Seiferle" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 11:28 AM
> > Subject: Re: Poetry & Psych
> >
> >
> > > Dominic wrote:
> > > You'd hope so, wouldn't you? In actual fact, statistical analysis of
> > > patterns of word usage, grammatical idom and so on has been shown to
> exert
> > > a disconcerting degree of traction when it comes to things like
> > determining
> > > the gender of an author.
> > >
> > > Hi Dominic,
> > >
> > > Well, I agree with your sense of computers, in their increasing
> > > subtlety of traction, and with your earlier posts about programming
> > > vis a vis Macs.
> > >
> > > My sense is more what is the point beyond an 'interesting
> > > exercise'? The greater subtlety and discernment of which
> > > such a computer program is capable arrives merely at what
> > > is simply and obviously known. The gender of an author is
> > > not usually a mystery,
> > > and so having a computer program that can discern the author's
> > > gender from a text is useful how? Which was one of my
> > > feelings about the suicidal poet study? The suicidal tendencies
> > > of the poets used in this study were known from any number
> > > of obvious realities at the time. Another issue is that the
> > > study is not meant to be an interesting exercise but a diagnostic
> > > tool, but used how? presumably to diagnose poets as suicidal
> > > when there are no obvious signs or realities to indicate such
> > > tendencies. It could be a story, I suppose, a psychologist
> > > scanning ______ journals and sending letters of soliticious
> > > warning to the self-referencing poets published in their
> > > pages.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Rebecca
> > >
> > > Rebecca Seiferle
> > > www.thedrunkenboat.com
> >
|