I'm not sure I agree with David that libraries are complex environments.  It
seems pretty simple to me :  we need lively feeling places which have the
'wow' factor, (ie lots of books piled high,  and colourful and changing
displays and objects which prompt curiosity),  and within which children can
also be helped to find what they want. Whatever arrangement we use they will
need help with the finding aspect when they are looking for specific
information (and they often are I'm afraid!). Unfortunately I don't see the
day coming yet when we can guarantee someone with time to help every child
as much as they really need helping,  so they will always need some props to
find their way through the stock, however attractively it is displayed.
And,  let's not underestimate the thrill a child feels when they are helped
to crack the code and can then find their subject/topic and the system is
seen to work.
Browsing collections and exciting environments are certainly what we need,
AND we also need to be able to find things!
Bookshops manage this without Dewey it's true,  but not that well in my
opinion.  They use an unpredicatble system which needs deciphering for much
of their non-fiction stock - and I get fed up with not being able to find my
way around and being forced to browse whole bays when the subject I want
occupies less than half a shelf and I'm short of time! Of course, they
usually (in this part of the world) have a much narrower choice anyway which
makes finding things a bit easier - maybe this is a lesson we should take on
board first.
Liz Dubber
Gloucestershire (again!)

-----Original Message-----
From: David Murray [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 26 November 2002 10:25
To: DUBBER, Elizabeth; [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Classification & Children's Libraries


Liz  makes a really interesting comment about the environment of
libraries.... they are complex environments, but the systems we then devise
to help people navigate the complex arrangements we have just created
compounds the inability of so many people to help themselves in our
libraries.... on the whole, I suspect most people in traditionally arranged
libraries - both children and young people and adults - are completely
baffled most of the time ...we surely need to ditch Dewey and its jumble of
numbers as soon as possible and move to ways of displaying stock and helping
people find things that have resonance with the rest of their libraries...

in most library environments, I suspect nice big signs with one or two words
would probably suffice... especially if the chosen words are "New books"


David Murray
Director
London Libraries Development Agency

020 7641 5266
[log in to unmask]
www.llda.org.uk

35 St Martin's Street
London
WC2H 7HP




----- Original Message -----
From: "DUBBER, Elizabeth" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: Classification & Children's Libraries


> I appreciate Chris's comments. The trend away from classification is only
> helpful if there are clear ways for children (and others) to access the
> materials they want without difficulty.  Browsing is to be encouraged for
> many things, but where a specific topic is sought you can't beat a
> simplified Dewey system with a good subject index,  combined with a colour
> coded system for younger children.  If they are helped to use such a
system,
> children find it empowering - they can learn to look for themselves and
take
> control of their searching.  Unclassified is fine to encourage browsing,
> especially for reluctant users,  but we must find a way of ensuring that
> children can be helped to develop search strategies as they develop into
> independent and self managing learners.  Even where we don't classify,
let's
> not make the mistake of thinking that this automatically enables children
to
> be self-directed searchers. They will still need the mediation of a
> supportive adult who knows the stock,  and many children not used to
> browsing will need help to gain the confidence to even take the books off
> the shelves. The barriers are more do to with the nature of the library
> environment and the fear of failure or being the centre of attention, than
> to do with the classification scheme.
> Liz Dubber
> Gloucestershire
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hall, Chris [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 26 November 2002 09:25
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Classification & Children's Libraries
>
>
> Sorry, I'm not a children's librarian, so I'll have to leave specific
> comments to colleagues elsewhere.  However, can I enter my own plea to
> "think outside of the box"?  It seems to me that you are boxing yourself
in
> by your starting point of "how classification systems may act as a
barrier".
> They may indeed, but they may also act as an essential tool for the
> discovery of books (etc.) and information - after all that is what they
are
> designed to do.  There seems to be a growing myth that classification is
> indeed more of a barrier than a tool, but frankly that is nonsense.  Dewey
> numbers to the nth decimal point on spine labels may not be helpful in all
> libraries (children's or otherwise) but systematic organisation is, and
> that, fundamentally, is what classification is all about.  Ah well, I
> suppose that's the bib services librarian in me coming out!
>
> Chris Hall
>
>
> Bibliographical Services Librarian
> Corporation of London Libraries
> Email:[log in to unmask]
> Tel: 020 7332 1075
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Russell Allen [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 06 May 1998 16:23
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Classification & Children's Libraries
>
>
>
> Hello all
>
> For my dissertation I am investigating children's access to non-fiction
> resources in libraries.  My specific interest is how classification
systems
> may act as a barrier.  If anyone has any knowledge on this subject, ideas
> for research or links to other sources I would be very grateful of the
help.
> Please do "think outside of the box" as well, things like:
> - can children use OPACs designed for adults?
> - do children approach staff?
> - are printed indexes any use at all?
> - is Dewey the only system used?
> - how does visual guiding support/hinder the child user?
>
> Any response is better than none!
>
> Finally if anyone would like to express an interest in having their
> knowledge formally surveyed by a simple (& brief) questionnaire that would
> be great!
>
> Come on, don't be shy....
>
> Russell Allen
> BA (Hons) Information & Library Studies
>
>
>
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