Hi Laurence,
I have always admired your ability to make something simple complex!
have a good weekend, rgds John
----- Original Message -----
From: Laurence Bathurst <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: 2003 logo
> Hi John you old Bastard!! :-) and hello to all you other .....folk
>
> Which as you pointed out is neither a comment on your age or your parents'
> marital status at the time of your conception (or is it birth?)
>
> Context is important as you say. However, it is the level of abstraction
> known by some to be "metacommunicative" that the context is both sourced
and
> received. There must be an awareness by all parties that a specific
context
> (or frame) has been constructed within which, there is a shared
> understanding of how the content of the frame should be read. Even where
> this metacommunicated shared understanding (interpretation) is adopted,
the
> frame remains very fragile. This is Gregory Bateson's theory anyway. The
> "play frame" is a perfect example where the metacommunicated message is:
> "these actions in which we now engage, do not denote what would be denoted
> by those actions which these actions denote". Calling somebody an old
> bastard does not denote aggression or contempt which is what the the
action
> would normally denote. Rather, the action denotes something quite the
> opposite - friendliness. This is called the "paradox of play". We could go
> on with this banter....until!!..One of us says something that hits a
nerve.
> With this the fragile play frame is destroyed. Same as two kids having a
> wrestle out in the yard - the pushing and hitting does not denote
> aggression....until!!!...one of the hits lands too hard - play frame
> breaks - child takes bat and ball and goes home crying.
>
> I find that it is this metacommunicated message regarding context that
makes
> email communication prone to volatility. As you say, tone and other
> non-verbals to a large extent, govern the way in which we should be read.
> Almost impossible to do when using email.
>
> Yet, it is our ability to do this that allowed language to evolve in the
> first place.
> Have I digressed too far?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> | Good afternoon all,
> |
> | It seems to me that this discussion is only two dimentional. About the
> | literal and/or philosophical meaning of certain terminoligy. It think we
> are
> | missing the third dimention, the one of context and 'tone'.
> |
> | The French express this wonderfully well when they say: "C'est le ton
qui
> | fait la musique". In Oz we are not as suptle, but understand exactly
what
> | the French mean. the word 'bastard' is used with many meanings all
> dependent
> | on context and flavour. It can be a term of endearment: "you lucky
> bastard"
> | or contemptuous: "what a bastard you are' and many other things to boot.
> |
> | have a good time, rgds John
> | (in sunny and windy Yeppoon)
> |
> | ----- Original Message -----
> | From: Lillie,Timothy H <[log in to unmask]>
> | To: <[log in to unmask]>
> | Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 10:49 PM
> | Subject: Re: 2003 logo
> |
> |
> | > All right. I confess that I see little distinction between the two,
> from
> | a pragmatic (day-to-day) perspective. The issue for me is not what word
> is
> | used for shorthand purposes but what happens in the lives of people.
> | However, I simply wanted to point out that someone who is not in the
> field,
> | but wishes to be respectful of individuals with disabilities (or
disabled
> | individuals, if you will) is in a Catch-22 situation. They are bound to
> | offend someone, somewhere. Those still believing in person-first
language
> | (arguably due to the effects of the social model) are offended by
> "disabled
> | people" which seems to some to locate the disability within the
individual
> | rather than as a social construction.
> | >
> | > And vice-versa.
> | >
> | > Timothy Lillie, PhD
> | > Dept. of Curricular & Instructional Studies
> | > The University of Akron
> | > Akron OH 44325-4205
> | >
> | > > -----Original Message-----
> | > > From: Lissner, Scott L [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> | > > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 3:50 PM
> | > > To: [log in to unmask]
> | > > Subject: Re: 2003 logo
> | > >
> | > >
> | > > The difference in language is part of a dimension that
> | > > reflect group identity development. The historically
> | > > majority used "disabled person" in a sometimes subtle often
> | > > overt denigrating or overt fashion. Person with language
> | > > evolved to address that tone and many advocates have adopted
> | > > the once pejorative terms as their own "The Disabled" This
> | > > happened with race in the US during the 50's and 60's. It
> | > > is akin to big D little d Deaf. in the Context of Deaf
> | > > Culture it is a capitol D in the context of impairment it is
> | > > a lower case d.
> | > >
> | > > L. Scott Lissner
> | > > ADA Coordinator, Academic Affairs
> | > > 2054 Drake
> | > > 1849 Cannon Drive
> | > > Columbus, Ohio 43210-1266
> | > >
> | > > (614) 292-6207 (v); (614) 688-8605 (tty); (614) 688-3665
> | > > (Fax)
> | > >
> | > > [log in to unmask]
> | > >
> | > >
> | > > -----Original Message-----
> | > > From: Lillie,Timothy H [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> | > > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 3:13 PM
> | > > To: [log in to unmask]
> | > > Subject: Re: 2003 logo
> | > >
> | > >
> | > > It's curious. I teach special education and disability
> | > > studies in the US and am often asked by students and others
> | > > who want to be sensitive to these issues: "What is the
> | > > correct form of address? Is it 'disabled person' or is it
> | > > 'person with a disability'?"
> | > >
> | > > I tell them: "Yes."
> | > >
> | > > TL
> | > >
> | > > Timothy Lillie, PhD
> | > > Dept. of Curricular & Instructional Studies
> | > > The University of Akron
> | > > Akron OH 44325-4205
> | > >
> | > > > -----Original Message-----
> | > > > From: Claire Wickham
> | > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> | > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 2:55 PM
> | > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> | > > > Subject: Re: 2003 logo
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | > > > Because the word "disabled" is being reclaimed and is an
> | > > > affirmation of
> | > > > pride.
> | > > >
> | > > > Because I am not a person carrying around my "disability"
> | > > as an
> | > > > afterthought.
> | > > >
> | > > > Because disabled people are disadvantaged by society's
> | > > > attitudes, prejudices
> | > > > and procedures and "disabled person" is thus akin to
> | > > oppressed person,
> | > > > disadvataged person....we do not say "person with
> | > > > oppression", "person with
> | > > > disadvatge", "person with blackness".
> | > > >
> | > > > Becasue "person with a disability" suggests that the locus
> | > > of
> | > > > responsibility
> | > > > is the individual, when it is society that creates the
> | > > disadvantage.
> | > > >
> | > > > Because "people with disabilities" suggests that we are
> | > > divided by our
> | > > > different impairments and "disabled people" units us.
> | > > >
> | > > > Claire
> | > > >
> | > > > -----Original Message-----
> | > > > From: The Disability-Research Discussion List
> | > > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
> | > > Peter Bailey
> | > > > Sent: 17 July 2002 19:38
> | > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> | > > > Subject: Re: 2003 logo
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | > > > Dear Mary
> | > > > Great question - I am keen to hear the answers, but just
> | > > to
> | > > > be clear I agree
> | > > > with the language of 'disabled person', all to do with the
> | > >
> | > > > social model of
> | > > > disability.
> | > > >
> | > > > Best wishes
> | > > > Peter Bailey
> | > > > 01372 275147 (T&F)
> | > > > 07803 182656 (M)
> | > > > 70 Chaffers Mead
> | > > > Ashtead
> | > > > Surrey KT21 1NH
> | > > > ----- Original Message -----
> | > > > From: Mary Ennis
> | > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> | > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 3:39 PM
> | > > > Subject: Re: 2003 logo
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | > > > Hi Mark,
> | > > >
> | > > > Here in Canada, the consumer movement has worked long
> | > > and
> | > > > hard to change
> | > > > the
> | > > > language, to put the individual first and foremost
> | > > instead
> | > > > of following a
> | > > > label. I'm really curious as to the reasoning behind
> | > > your
> | > > > request for a
> | > > > name
> | > > > change to the European Year?
> | > > >
> | > > > Mary
> | > > >
> | > > > ----- Original Message -----
> | > > > From: "Mark Priestley" <[log in to unmask]>
> | > > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> | > > > Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 1:05 PM
> | > > > Subject: 2003 logo
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | > > > > Hi
> | > > > >
> | > > > > Just to let you know that I managed to persuade the
> | > > > people at European
> | > > > Year
> | > > > > of 'People with Disabilities' to produce an
> | > > alternative
> | > > > UK friendly logo
> | > > > > titled 'European Year of Disabled People'.
> | > > > >
> | > > > > They haven't put it on their web site yet, but they
> | > > sent
> | > > > me one when I
> | > > > asked
> | > > > > for it.
> | > > > >
> | > > > > EYPD Team
> | > > > > EurO&M
> | > > > > 22 rue de la Putterie
> | > > > > B - 1000 Brussels
> | > > > > mailto:[log in to unmask]
> | > > > >
> | > > > > http://www.eypd2003.org/eypd/eypd/logo/logo_2.html
> | > > > >
> | > > > > Best Wishes
> | > > > >
> | > > > > Mark Priestley
> | > > > > Centre for Disability Studies
> | > > > > University of Leeds
> | > > > > LEEDS
> | > > > > LS2 9JT
> | > > > > UK
> | > > > >
> | > > > > tel: +44 113 343 4417
> | > > > > fax: +44 113 343 4415
> | > > > > e-mail: [log in to unmask]
> | > > > > http://www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies
> | > > > >
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