I agree that it is unsatisfactory, but on the few occasions we have gone
down this route we have exhausted any other means of dealing with the
application and it was this or nothing.

It is always stressed that this is an unsatisfactory approach and that, from
the developer's point of view, this can be very dangerous as it kind of
commits them to paying for whatever archaeological work we can think up,
even to the extent that it makes the site uneconomic.  they could appeal
against the imposition of an 'unreasonable' condition as soon as it is
issued, but I would argue that they couldn't appeal against the cost of the
works required by the condition once work on the archaeology had started as
they had 'accepted' it by commissioning the first evaluation phase.

I agree that we have limited scope for preserving stuff in situ with this
method, but we haven't had this problem yet (although we've worried about it
lots).

I feel we ought to keep this term in as it is what actually happens, not
what we would want to happen.


Pete Iles, Lancashire





-----Original Message-----
From: John Wood [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 12 February 2002 10:28
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: HBSMR - ALGAO Consultation Final Outcome list


I'm interested to see this.  I do not think it should be in an approved list
of outcomes as it is thoroughly unsatisfactory.  It seems to me to give the
impression to developers that an 'evaluation' is all that is needed when
PPG16 rightly says that the archaeology should be preserved in situ or
properly recorded.  An evaluation is only done to establish the nature and
extent of the archaeology.


I too have come across cases where applicants will not carry out
pre-determination evaluation work, because they do not wish to incur costs
if they might be refused permission, and / or there is existing activity on
the site (in a recent case here, a major bus station), which make it hard to
do evaluations.

I suggest that

 - If it is an outline application, the archaeology can be held over to be
dealt with under reserved matters.
 - If it is a full application, there will be very little scope once
permission is granted to alter the layout or design of the development to
mitigate impacts on archaeology.  Therefore there should be a full recording
condition.  If there is no archaeology there, fine!  But if there is
archaeology, the developer shouldn't be let off with thinking that an
'evaluation' satisfies the archaeological requirement.

John Wood


-----Original Message-----
From: Iles Peter [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 08 February 2002 15:10
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: HBSMR - ALGAO Consultation Final Outcome list


Crispin

This does happen, but is not a 'best practice' outcome nor does it realy
comply with PPG16.  Usual reason is that there is a need to make an urgent
planning decision (e.g. time is running out and the applicant will not agree
to it being defferred; that a 'valuable' development will be lost to the
district if the decision is not made; or simply that they hadn't noticed
that there was an archaeological constraint) and there is not sufficient
time to do an evaluation before the decision must be made.  If its only an
outline planning application then the need for further mitigation etc. can
be dealt with during the reserved matters application (which itself can be
made conditional on the results of the evaluation being submitted with it).

otherwise you need to write a restrictive condition, based on the PPG16
condition, which makes it clear that there will need to be i)an evaluation,
and ii) further work dependant on the evaluation results.  Risky as you
can't then stop all development if the archaeology merits it and the
developer is committed to signing an open cheque

not realy satisfactory but we've done it a few times.


pete iles, Lancashire SMR


-----Original Message-----
From: Crispin Flower [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 08 February 2002 10:18
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: HBSMR - ALGAO Consultation Final Outcome list


Dear all
I've been looking at the recently posted ALGAO lists to incorporate them
into HBSMR for new installations, and wondered if anyone could clarify one
issue?

In the Consultation Final Outcome list, there is:

Term: Approved subject to evaluation
Note: The decision making body has granted consent subject to the results of
an evaluation.

This seems to imply that a planning consent could be revoked depending on
the results of an evaluation. Can anyone confirm whether this is correct and
as agreed - am I misinterpreting it?

(There are other similar entries in the table - e.g. for impact assessment).

Best wishes
Crispin


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Crispin Flower
exeGesIS SDM Ltd.
Great House Barn
Talgarth
Powys
LD3 0AH
Tel: 01874 712145/711145
Fax: 01874 711156
email: [log in to unmask]
URL: www.esdm.co.uk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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