Dear All,
Please find attached the last two weekly GridPP Project Management
Board Meeting minutes.
The latest minutes can be found each week in:
http://www.gridpp.ac.uk/pmb/minutes
the NEW home for all minutes
(as well as being listed with other minutes e.g. 020121.txt).
The site
http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~doyle/GridPP/PMB/minutes/
will remain as a source for minutes.
Files are uploaded to the GridPP site using gridsite. See
http://www.gridpp.ac.uk/gridsite
Cheers, Tony
________________________________________________________________________
Tony Doyle, GridPP Project Leader Telephone: +44-141-330 5899
Rm 482, Kelvin Building Telefax: +44-141-330 5881
Dept of Physics and Astronomy EMail: [log in to unmask]
University of Glasgow Web: http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~doyle
G12 8QQ, UK Video - IP: 194.36.1.234
________________________________________________________________________
GridPP PMB Minutes 17 - 16th January 2002
=========================================
Present: Roger Barlow, Nick Brook, Tony Cass, Peter Clarke, Tony Doyle,
Neil Geddes, John Gordon, Steve Lloyd, Robin Middleton.
Full day meeting held at Imperial College, with members physically present.
As this was a discussion meeting the Actions List was not considered;
however it is appended at the end of these minutes for completeness.
Tony Cass was welcomed as CERN liaison, replacing Les Robertson.
John will update the email list and Steve will update the website.
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Tony Doyle brought up the SCP4 problem and the Oversight Committee
report.
In response to the shortfall of 12M identified by SCP4, Dave will draft
a 1 page document for SCP4 identifying where the 17M of GridPP money
is being spent, and how it relieves the burden on the rest of the
program through (1) the BaBar rebate (2) RAL staff and (3) RAL scalar
computing hardware.
A long consideration was given to the draft report from
the oversight committee. Some errors were identified: Tony will collect
and forward these.
Points raised were:
They ask for an Executive Summary in 12.c. We were unclear about what was meant.
(Summary of the project, the overview, the explanation or what?) We are
also unclear about what is requested as an 'Integrated Project' between
CERN, GridPP and DataGrid, and are apprehensive about the feasability
of anything of this nature. We are working on this as part of SC2 and the
PEB at CERN.
The 'dependencies' are dependencies between the experimental requirements
and the items the DG releases contain. Unfortunately we do not know
ahead of time what each release will contain. In practice experiments
will use, or try out, whatever is provided in each release and give
feedback.
We will need feedback in March of how the experiments got on with the
testbed; what bits they are using and what they think of them. This
is how we decide when / if our High Level deliverables are being met.
The EB should arrange.
It is not clear what will happen to GridPP at the end of the project (assuming
it succeeds). Considerable responsibility may be given to system managers
(who may need protection in the coming Grants round.) We need to know the
outcome of the next Spending Review before planning this area.
To identify risks and the management of risks one has to look at the Gantt
chart for the project. Tony will take this on.
Our metrics for success are the experiment data challenges.
Wisely or not, we had to allocate all our funds early. We note that we
now have no contingency (except for PPARC)
It was not clear what would happen to the money granted to groups for posts
if a post became vacant and there was a gap before replacement: would the
unspent funds revert to the group or the project? Neil will find out.
In response to 12i: the TB and the new posts provide the glue between the
experiments and the middleware.
Our website needs improving. Steve and Andrew McNab should have another go
at it. (12k)
To coordinate JIF and SRIF sites (12l) Peter Clarke would encourage these
sites to put up Grid software.
We considered appointing a Project Manager, and decided after some discussion
that the functions of such a manager are already adequately covered. Tony
will meet the Astrogrid project manager to see what we can learn.
Peter Clarke and the TB 'own' the architecture.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Lloyd reported on the consequences of extending the RAL supported posts
from April to September 04. This is necessary to complete the project, though
it removes our contingency. He would email the CB to get them to approve (it
is not clear they have any alternative.)
What these people do for the grid (Testbed as well as Tier 1/A) should be
specified in the RAL SLA. (There is no need for a separate SLA). This
needs clarification (especially with distributed Tier 2 sites as part of the
grid) - John and Robin will consider.
Computer Science posts funded by PPARC but through EPSRC should be in our
accounts and reports. Relevant WP managers can tell them what to work on.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Gordon will revisit the Tier 1/A staffing plans, linking in the
eScience centre.
Tenders for the spend this year look good, and the 900K should be spent by the
end of the FY. Plans to buy 150 Dual P3 CPUs, 50TB of disk and 50 TB of tape
were agreed.
It was possible that the increased BaBar activity might saturate the 622MB
connection from RAL to Janet. RB to investigate.
The testbed will roll out incrementally, starting at sites with WP6 experts,
then at other sites with support from WP6 experts. Queries will be
channelled through the eScience centres. This structure was approved.
It was asked whether GridPP would pay for machines dedicated to testbed
work, and the answer was no.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Few inputs had been volunteered for the Cambridge meeting. Suggestions
should be made to Tony.
The website is now being set up. Costs (room hire and incidental
catering) are being split 60:40 between GridPP and the Cambridge eScience
centre.
WP reports whould be of highlights, not a complete list of everything.
Technical talks are found more interesting than political ones.
Roger and Nick will report on behalf of the experiments.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Clarke reported that the TB now exists officially. Steve will
put the names on the website.
Quarterly submissions to Datagrid had been reviewed. WP5 is getting back on
track, as is the Liverpool half post. This shows that remediation
mechanisms are in place and work.
Pete has a spreadsheet that shows effort and deficiencies thereof. He will
forward it to Dave, who needs it and has volunteered to process it.
This should also include those working at RAL under the 'Grid' heading, as
well as the institutes.
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Robin reported on the EU WP progress
In WP3, MDS and FTREE seem to be converging. MDS and R-GMA are not and a
decision will have to be taken between them.
The TB will ask the WP manager (and Fab) for evaluation criteria to do this.
For WP4 it is unclear what happens if LCFG has no long-term future
WP5 recovery is back on track with 4 people in post. Is this enough to
satisfy the oversight committee? Opinions should go to John, Robin and
Peter.
Andrew McNab has taken over as WP6 Liaison from Dave Newbold. The
committee thanked Dave for all his excellent work.
Concern was expressed that the TB and EB should be more closely coupled
with WP8 to ensure better reporting.
The biologists (EBI) should be invited to Cambridge to tell us about WP9
Recruitment is in progress though there are still some gaps. New
posts will be put on the website by John.
Note that EU datagrid pays travel for anyone working on DataGrid, not just
those funded through them. This (plus some spend on desktop computing)
is reimbursed on payment of deliverables.
Fab wants to know how PPARC is controlling the 'unfunded' effort. Robin
will produce a piece of paper.
Intergrid want a progress report from BaBar by 17th February. RB will provide.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neil reported that CERN want a UK delegate on the Software and Computing
Committee (SC2). John Gordon was the obvious choice.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tony (Cass) reported that recruitment at CERN was proceeding. The first
RTAG was now set up. Hardware is being installed. there will be a workshop
at CERN on March 11-15.
In discussing relationshops between projects it emerges that the
LHC computing Grid is the exploitation of the EU datagrid.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nick reported that the EB was entering a new phase now that the posts
were in place. Its role is to ensure that GridPP is experimentally driven,
and to act as a channel of communication among the experiments, and between
the experiments and GridPP. The next EB will be mid March.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The next PMB meeting of this type will be at Bristol on March 19th. Nick
will make arrangements.
=======================================================================
Actions: Outstanding and new
ACTION 15.2: TD to iterate with Oversight cttee on understanding management
of the Tier-2 centres,
ACTION 15.3: SLL will write to the directors of each of the eScience centres
on how best to work together.
ACTION 16.2 NB and RB to plan Experiment session.
ACTION 16.3 JG to plan Deployment session. Initial thoughts are
presentations from all sites who have implemented EDG Testbed1 plus CERN,
followed by discussion on future progress of EDG and GridPP testbeds.
ACTION 16.4 PC and RM to plan Middleware session including feedback from
Middleware Training Day on 31st Jan.
Action 16.5 TD to contact Cambridge about local speaker(s).
Fourth meeting is planned for May in Manchester but date not yet fixed.
ACTION 16.6 RB
ACTION 17.1 JG to update email list to replace Les with Tony
ACTION 17.2 SL to update website to replace Les with Tony
ACTION 17.3 DB 1 page document for SCP4 detailing where the 17M is going
ACTION 17.4 ALL read Oversight Committee draft and report errors to Tony
ACTION 17.5 TD Collate errors and forward to Guy Rickett
ACTION 17.6 NB and RB Arrange for Experiments to report on testbed
experiences in March.
ACTION 17.7 TD Examine Gantt chart and identify risks, and consider how
to manage them.
ACTION 17.8 NG Find out who gets the money if there's a gap in a post.
ACTION 17.9 SL with Andrew Mcnab; improve website.
ACTION 17.10 PC Encourage JIF and SRIF sites to put up Grid software.
ACTION 17.11 TD Contact Astrogrid project manager and see what we can learn.
ACTION 17.12 SL Get CB to agree to extend RAL posts for final 6 months in 04
ACTION 17.13 JG and RM consider what 'running the grid' means.
ACTION 17.14 JG revise Tier 1/A staffing plans.
ACTION 17.15 RB investigate whether network from RAL to Janet may need
upgrading and report to PPNCG.
ACTION 17.16 ALL give Tony ideas for the Cambridge meeting.
ACTION 17.17 SL Put TB names on the website.
ACTION 17.18 PC forward spreadsheet to DB (including RAL grid effort and some
words to explain meanings)
ACTION 17.19 DB process spreadsheet from PC and use in reporting.
ACTION 17.20 PC through TB: get evaluation criteria to make MDS/R-GMA decision.
ACTION 17.21 ALL send feedback to JG, PC and RM about WP5 recovery.
ACTION 17.22 RM pass on vote of thanks to Dave Newbold.
ACTION 17.23 PC and NB improve communication of TB and EB with WP8
ACTION 17.24 RM invite EBI to give talk at Cambridge.
ACTION 17.25 JG put RAL posts on website
ACTION 17.26 ALL get grid certificates and learn how to update the GridPP
website
ACTION 17.27 RM write document describing how PPARC controls unfunded EU
effort and send to Fab.
ACTION 17.28 RB Provide Babar+Intergrid slides for Robin.
ACTION 17.29 NG Tell CERN John Gordon is our delegate on SC2
ACTION 17.30 NB and RB Arrange EB meeting mid March.
ACTION 17.31 NB arrange PMB meeting on 19th March in Bristol.
GridPP PMB Minutes 18 - 21st January 2002
==========================================
Present: Roger Barlow (RB), Nick Brook (NB), Tony Cass (TC), Pete Clarke (PK),
Tony Doyle (TD), John Gordon (JG), Steve Lloyd (SL)
Administrative Assistant
------------------------
TD Reported that an advert is out with a deadline of 31 January.
Review of Actions
-----------------
ACTION 15.2: TD to iterate with Oversight cttee on understanding management
of the Tier-2 centres - not yet done.
ACTION 15.3: SL will write to the directors of each of the e_Science centres
on how best to work together - not yet done - will be done this week.
ACTION 16.2 NB and RB to plan Experiment session. This has been done. Nick and
Roger will have 1 hour each and Stephen Burke half an hour.
ACTION 16.3 JG to plan Deployment session. TD had sent a long list which JG
amended. He sent out an email but had got no response yet.
ACTION 16.4 PC and RM to plan Middleware session including feedback from
Middleware Training Day on 31st Jan. TD will contact the middleware people
directly.
ACTION 16.5 TD to contact Cambridge about local speaker(s). This has been
done. Andy Parker and his Technical Manager will speak and RM is contacting
someone from EBI.
ACTION 16.6 RB Fourth meeting is planned for May in Manchester but date not
yet fixed. This is now fixed for 9/10 May. Rooms are booked and RB is talking
to the e-Science centre about giving talks.
ACTION 17.1 JG to update email list to replace Les with Tony. Done.
ACTION 17.2 SL to update website to replace Les with Tony. Done.
ACTION 17.3 DB 1 page document for SCP4 detailing where the 17M is going. A
draft was sent yesterday and will be circulated to the PMB this evening.
ACTION 17.4 ALL read Oversight Committee draft and report errors to Tony.
There was no further feedback.
ACTION 17.5 TD Collate errors and forward to Guy Rickett. One error was
picked up at the last meeting.
ACTION 17.6 NB and RB Arrange for Experiments to report on testbed
experiences in March. NB reported that CMS have already raised points on
this issue. Dave Newbold was compiling a list which would be fed back.
There was a discussion of whether a common reporting format could be
adopted. NB and RB would investigate.
NEW ACTION: 18.1 NB/RB to investigate reporting format for Experiments Testbed
experiences.
ACTION 17.7 TD Examine Gantt chart and identify risks, and consider how
to manage them. TD was having problems installing MS Project.
ACTION 17.8 NG Find out who gets the money if there's a gap in a post. Not yet
done.
ACTION 17.9 SL with Andrew Mcnab; improve website. Andrew has made some
changes. SLL will contact him this week.
ACTION 17.10 PC Encourage JIF and SRIF sites to put up Grid software. This
action was to get agreement in principle but we didn't want to formalise the
structure at this stage.
ACTION 17.11 TD Contact Astrogrid project manager and see what we can learn.
Not yet done.
ACTION 17.12 SL Get CB to agree to extend RAL posts for final 6 months in 04.
An email had been sent but there was little response so far.
ACTION 17.13 JG and RM consider what 'running the grid' means. This was
understood to mean consulting around RAL and getting 'buy in'. It has not yet
been done.
ACTION 17.14 JG revise Tier 1/A staffing plans. Not yet started.
ACTION 17.15 RB investigate whether network from RAL to Janet may need upgrading
and report to PPNCG. Not yet done. RB needs to talk to Tim Adye.
ACTION 17.16 ALL give Tony ideas for the Cambridge meeting. None received yet.
ACTION 17.17 SL Put TB names on the website. SL does not have them as they
are in PC minutes which are not yet ready. JG offered to send SL the names.
NEW ACTION: 18.2 JG to send SL the current TB names.
ACTION 17.18 PC forward spreadsheet to DB (including RAL grid effort and some
words to explain meanings). It was clarified that this was PCs EDG reporting
spreadsheet (the 'red' one). Not yet done.
ACTION 17.19 DB process spreadsheet from PC and use in reporting. This depends
on the previous action.
ACTION 17.20 PC through TB: get evaluation criteria to make MDS/R-GMA
decision. Not yet done.
ACTION 17.21 ALL send feedback to JG, PC and RM about WP5 recovery. The
question was whether any additional feedback was required for the Oversight
Committee. JG to present to the Collaboration Meeting looking forward to
real work on the middleware.
ACTION 17.22 RM pass on vote of thanks to Dave Newbold. Status unknown.
ACTION 17.23 PC and NB improve communication of TB and EB with WP8. Nothing
done but RM should be involved as well.
ACTION 17.24 RM invite EBI to give talk at Cambridge. Status unknown.
ACTION 17.25 JG put RAL posts on website. It was decided that a better
procedure was for each institute to send SLL details of their people and for
him to put them on the website. RMs UKHEPGRID list could also be a starting
point.
NEW ACTION: 18.3 SLL to get GridPP personnel details on website.
ACTION 17.26 ALL get grid certificates and learn how to update the GridPP
website. PC was in the process of getting a certificate. TD has the
instructions.
ACTION 17.27 RM write document describing how PPARC controls unfunded EU
effort and send to Fab. Status unknown.
ACTION 17.28 RB Provide Babar+Intergrid slides for Robin. Not yet done.
ACTION 17.29 NG Tell CERN John Gordon is our delegate on SC2. Done.
ACTION 17.30 NB and RB Arrange EB meeting mid March. Not yet done.
ACTION 17.31 NB arrange PMB meeting on 19th March in Bristol. Will be done
this week.
Other Matters Arising
---------------------
NB reported that CMS and BaBar are having problems with disk space at RAL,
and during defragmentation. JG knew about the space problem but not the
defragmentation. NB will get more details and email JG.
NEW ACTION: 18.4 NB to email JG about RAL disk problems.
There are still problems with the UCL MCU. It was likely that we would use the
old Gatekeeper number for a while (IP 128.40.37.237). TD agreed to make the
Glasgow MCU available as a backup in future.
NEW ACTION: 18.5 TD Investigate making Glasgow MCU available as a backup.
Actions (21/01/02)
------------------
ACTION 15.2: TD to iterate with Oversight cttee on understanding management
of the Tier-2 centres.
ACTION 15.3: SLL will write to the directors of each of the e-Science centres
on how best to work together.
ACTION 16.3 JG to plan Deployment session.
ACTION 16.4 TD to contact middleware people about Middleware session.
ACTION 17.7 TD Examine Gantt chart and identify risks, and consider how
to manage them.
ACTION 17.8 NG Find out who gets the money if there's a gap in a post.
ACTION 17.9 SL with Andrew Mcnab; improve website.
ACTION 17.10 PC Encourage JIF and SRIF sites to put up Grid software.
ACTION 17.11 TD Contact Astrogrid project manager and see what we can learn.
ACTION 17.13 JG and RM consider what 'running the grid' means.
ACTION 17.14 JG revise Tier 1/A staffing plans.
ACTION 17.15 RB investigate whether network from RAL to Janet may need upgrading
and report to PPNCG.
ACTION 17.16 ALL give Tony ideas for the Cambridge meeting..
ACTION 17.17 SL Put TB names on the website.
ACTION 17.18 PC forward spreadsheet to DB (including RAL grid effort and some
words to explain meanings).
ACTION 17.19 DB process spreadsheet from PC and use in reporting.
ACTION 17.20 PC through TB: get evaluation criteria to make MDS/R-GMA
decision.
ACTION 17.22 RM pass on vote of thanks to Dave Newbold.
ACTION 17.23 PC, RM and NB improve communication of TB and EB with WP8.
ACTION 17.24 RM invite EBI to give talk at Cambridge.
ACTION 17.26 ALL get grid certificates and learn how to update the GridPP
website.
ACTION 17.27 RM write document describing how PPARC controls unfunded EU
effort and send to Fab.
ACTION 17.28 RB Provide BaBar+Intergrid slides for Robin.
ACTION 17.30 NB and RB Arrange EB meeting mid March.
ACTION 17.31 NB arrange PMB meeting on 19th March in Bristol.
ACTION 18.1 NB/RB to investigate reporting format for Experiments Testbed
experiences.
ACTION 18.2 JG to send SL the current TB names.
ACTION 18.3 SLL to get GridPP personnel details on website.
ACTION 18.4 NB to email JG about RAL disk problems.
ACTION 18.5 TD Investigate making Glasgow MCU available as a backup.
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