Hi Bob Thanks for the long mail, so interesting. Yes I have to admit a few
years after that course that the tutor was right. Cringe cringe, I was using
too many poetry words instead of using simple ones and making every word
count and work on its own. I wasn't quite ready I don't think for such
strong crits. Was too full of flowery words that were pretty but did not say
a great deal. I have learned a lot more since that course and from the
discussions on this list and I feel still have a lot more to learn. I am
glad you like the language I use in the big bang theory, I suppose the words
there are simple everyday words which have an immediate impact. Although I
still do sometimes fly to fairyland again and use poetic language that is
outdated. I just like to play with words like we all do, but the best words
I have to admit are the simple ones that get right to the root of things.
Thanks Sally J
>From: Bob Cooper <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Re Bang - Christine (I mean Mike, erm Sally)
>Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:27:56 +0000
>
>Hi Sally J (and others...),
>You write: I was always being told off for using "poetry words" - and if I
>had been there I may have been aiding and abetting those who were doing the
>telling off! But I tend to think that some words have been used too much in
>poetry, they're tired and weary and almost threadbare. But there's lots of
>fresh words, words with energy and vitaility, and those words can belong,
>can make magic, can dance. (Peter Sansom once clamied that Ian McMillan
>wanted to see more vests and settees in poems! It's mentioned somewhere in
>his book Writing Poems, Bloodaxe). Your poem about the bed and the
>concluding lines about grandchildren (Big Bang!) mentions things, uses
>words, that I feel (and Peter Sansom & Ian McMillan?) belong in poetry!
>I guess every word has its own musicality on its own. I'm delighted with
>the small-brass-band-ish ooom-paph-pha tune you managed to play with your
>choice of words in your poem! There's a grin induced by reading it (even
>before the guy lkights his pipe!). Given the tone and texture of the piece
>(and the comments made about certain bits) the words and language you use
>seem appropriate to the subject (they don't just dance with the subject -
>they cavort with the subject!).
>(... and now I'm thinking: when did I last use the word "cavort"? Could I
>play with it, get it to create a line, perhaps, get it to link arms with
>other words and get me started on a poem...)
>I scribbled down a phrase by a Romanian poet maybe a decade ago (when their
>Dictator was on the way out), someone called Daniel Crasnaru, who said "now
>we are able to use all the words in our language." I think he was saying
>something important - but I don't think he meant we should use all the
>words all the time!
>Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: Sally James <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Re Bang - Christine (I mean Mike)
>>Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:45:45 +0000
>>
>>I was always being told off for using "poetry words" on a course I was on
>>and maybe they were right but but.....I also like the musical quality and
>>sounds that words have like sparkle and tinkle and flowing and short sharp
>>words like ice and bang and shot. Words are words with sounds as well as
>>meaning and fashion comes and goes and if we like the word and it fits the
>>piece that we are writing then let it be is my tuppence worth. Sally j
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Bob Cooper <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>Subject: Re: Re Bang - Christine (I mean Mike)
>>>Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 02:30:32 +0000
>>>
>>>Hi Mike (and all...)
>>>You write, Mike:
>>>Is it justifiable to use a redundant word purely for its musical quality?
>>>I would be interested in hearing any opinions on this point.
>>>
>>>I'm tempted to say an emphatic no! But I'm not sure what you mean? Could
>>>you give an example?
>>>Bob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: arthur seeley <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>Subject: Re: Re Bang - Christine
>>>>Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:38:58 -0000
>>>>
>>>>Hear,hear! Arthur.
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "grasshopper" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 6:19 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: Re Bang - Christine
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Dear Mike,
>>>> I haven't seen the crit concerned here, so my comments do not refer to
>>>>that, but, in general, I would say there is definitely a fad these days
>>>>for
>>>>clipping words until a poem reads like telegraphese. Quite simply, it's
>>>>silly -often a little word (O, those articles!) is needed for the flow
>>>>of
>>>>the line. I sometimes wonder if the clippers read the lines aloud, or if
>>>>they do, if they really listen.
>>>>I get the impression sometimes that some revisers think you are charged
>>>>by
>>>>the word. Poetry is not about expressing something in the fewest
>>>>possible
>>>>words.
>>>>Kind regards,
>>>> grasshopper
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Mike Horwood" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 9:27 AM
>>>>Subject: Re Bang - Christine
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hello Christine,
>>>> Thanks for your comments and suggestions. Other
>>>>people have made similar comments about other poems and I begin to
>>>>realise
>>>>that my style is definitely a lot more wordy than many people write in
>>>>themselves, or even like to read. Conversely, I sometimes feel when I
>>>>read
>>>>work posted on the list or in magazines that it has been cut back so far
>>>>that thereīs not much more than a list of images. In the end I guess
>>>>this
>>>>just comes down to individual taste and preferences. Some of the cuts
>>>>you
>>>>suggest here, especially in the first stanza, feel to me as if they
>>>>would
>>>>break up the rhythm and flow. I was aiming at a rather excited,
>>>>breathless
>>>>speaking voice. But perhaps more interesting than the virtues of
>>>>specific
>>>>cuts in this poem is the general question of just how bare/ minimalist/
>>>>precise a poem needs to be. I donīt want to be misunderstood as
>>>>advocating
>>>>pointless repetition or strings of adjectives, but I would like to ask
>>>>this;
>>>>can words be used purely to carry the rhythm of the line and for the
>>>>pleasure of the sound their letters make in combination with other
>>>>words? Is
>>>>it justifiable to use a redundant word purely for its musical quality? I
>>>>would be interested in hearing any opinions on this point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Best wishes, Mike
>>>
>>>
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