Thanks Grassy,
I'll think about what you said.


>From: grasshopper <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Instance 8 (Tom)
>Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 07:52:35 +0100
>
>Dear James,
>                  If you feel you've been cyber-bullied, then surely the
>best
>way to deal with it is to stand up to it, or ignore it, -not appear to run
>away from it. It seems daft to me when people leave a group because they
>object to one person on it. If you object to what a person says, you can
>block emails from them, so their messages go straight to your deleted
>folder
>rather than to your inbox. On an open list, arguments do flare up from time
>to time. I'm on one list where several people seem to take pride in the
>vitriolic nature of their crits, -mostly people take no notice or laugh it
>off.
>  By posting our words, in a way we are setting ourselves up as targets.
>The
>trick is surely to take on board the responses we find helpful, and ignore
>the rest.
>Kind regards,
>  grasshopper
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "James Bell" <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 4:49 PM
>Subject: Re: Instance 8 (Tom)
>
>
> > Again, I need to come back and object strongly this time to what I feel
>is
>a
> > personal attack in the form of cyber bullying. If I knew how to write
>good
> > poems all the time I would do it, which is part of the reason why, up
>until
> > now, I have enjoyed being part of this forum. I object too on being told
> > with some arrogance that I "lack creative ambition" from someone who
> > basically knows nothing about me. If you think my work is crap, I can
>accept
> > that. However I cannot and will not accept what it is dressed up in. For
> > this reason I am now unsubscribing and will be looking elsewhere.
> > Goodbye.
> >
> >
> > >From: Tom Donald <[log in to unmask]>
> > >Subject: Re: Instance 8 (Tom)
> > >Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:30:28 +0100
> > >
> > >I utterly deny that I believe that JB is without hope of poetic
>redemption
> > >although I suspect he lacks creative ambition.
> > >I never critisise the work of those for whom I see no hope. That would
>be
>a
> > >waste of time, wouldn it not.
> > >Neither am I looking for some kind of debate about anything except
>poetry.
> > >I am delivering an honest demolition of a bad poem, and I think that if
> > >more
> > >people did this more often then there would be fewer bad poems written
>and
> > >more poets getting on with real life, which is where good poems come
>from.
> > >Some people may disapprove of my being so impolite as to express what
>could
> > >be though of as "discouragement", but I do want to discourage crap
>poetry,
> > >clear away the weeds so that beautiful thoughts might freely bloom.
> > >Including within the person of James Bell.
> > >Creative ambition, all round.
> > >Regards
> > >Tom
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "alderoak" <[log in to unmask]
> > >Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:34 AM
> > >Subject: Re: Instance 8 (Tom)
> > >
> > >
> > > > This
> > > >
> > > > > - for me the rank smell of a river has more
> > > > going for it than the triteness that humnanity can exert,
> > > >
> > > > is, I assume an apologia for this stanza
> > > >
> > > > > > Some rain, and the tide pulls in
> > > > > > on a steady breeze -
> > > > > > the smell of river becomes ranker
> > > > > > in the moistness
> > > > > > though welcome and pleasant
> > > > > > contains a reality
> > > > > > sounder than the tribulations
> > > > > > life can bring.
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > It's not that
> > > >
> > > > >the tone is a
> > > > wee bit pompous to one ear
> > > >
> > > > (though it is)
> > > >
> > > > it is the triteness of the rejection of human tribulation as trite
>in
> > > > comparison to the richness (rank? high rank?) of nature that I have
>to
> > > > object to.
> > > >
> > > > You write as if Nature exists independently of our capacity to sense
>it
> > >and
> > > > make sense of it. As if the socially fascinating issues of human
>rank
> > >and
> > > > the rankness of a river were not, equally, human concepts created by
>us
> > >out
> > > > of the very mud that fashions our flesh
> > > >
> > > > Unlike Tom, I see some hope of poetic redemption for you.
> > > >
> > > > As you righly point out
> > > >
> > > >  most of us
> > > > > > remain on the edge and refuse
> > > > > > or hesitate
> > > > > > to return to a primordial element.
> > > >
> > > > not least your own poem, which feels as if it is tempted to dive
>into
> > >the
> > > > convoluted depths of a psychic underworld but then finds itself in
>the
> > > > outfall where
> > > >
> > > > >They all float with rising confidence.
> > > >
> > > > but don't give up. After your 100x100x100 words you may be immersed
> > >enough
> > > > to have the courage of your poetic convictions.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe then you'll be able to talk crap with the best of us ;-)
> > > >
> > > > Terri )O(
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > bw
> > James
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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> >




bw
James


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