Like others, James, I want you to stay too. Poets have to be thin-skinned to
be poets.
I think Terri phrased what may not (yet) be right with what you posted when
she was highlighting something about the point that the poet, too, is part
of the natural world and could be seen as a less passive observer of
everything in the poem. I'd go with what she wrote. But I'm not just writing
about your piece, I'm writing about you.
I'd rather you didn't go!
Bob

>From: James Bell <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Instance 8 (Tom)
>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 15:49:03 +0000
>
>Again, I need to come back and object strongly this time to what I feel is
>a
>personal attack in the form of cyber bullying. If I knew how to write good
>poems all the time I would do it, which is part of the reason why, up until
>now, I have enjoyed being part of this forum. I object too on being told
>with some arrogance that I "lack creative ambition" from someone who
>basically knows nothing about me. If you think my work is crap, I can
>accept
>that. However I cannot and will not accept what it is dressed up in. For
>this reason I am now unsubscribing and will be looking elsewhere.
>Goodbye.
>
>
>>From: Tom Donald <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Instance 8 (Tom)
>>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:30:28 +0100
>>
>>I utterly deny that I believe that JB is without hope of poetic redemption
>>although I suspect he lacks creative ambition.
>>I never critisise the work of those for whom I see no hope. That would be
>>a
>>waste of time, wouldn it not.
>>Neither am I looking for some kind of debate about anything except poetry.
>>I am delivering an honest demolition of a bad poem, and I think that if
>>more
>>people did this more often then there would be fewer bad poems written and
>>more poets getting on with real life, which is where good poems come from.
>>Some people may disapprove of my being so impolite as to express what
>>could
>>be though of as "discouragement", but I do want to discourage crap poetry,
>>clear away the weeds so that beautiful thoughts might freely bloom.
>>Including within the person of James Bell.
>>Creative ambition, all round.
>>Regards
>>Tom
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "alderoak" <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:34 AM
>>Subject: Re: Instance 8 (Tom)
>>
>>
>> > This
>> >
>> > > - for me the rank smell of a river has more
>> > going for it than the triteness that humnanity can exert,
>> >
>> > is, I assume an apologia for this stanza
>> >
>> > > > Some rain, and the tide pulls in
>> > > > on a steady breeze -
>> > > > the smell of river becomes ranker
>> > > > in the moistness
>> > > > though welcome and pleasant
>> > > > contains a reality
>> > > > sounder than the tribulations
>> > > > life can bring.
>> > > >
>> >
>> > It's not that
>> >
>> > >the tone is a
>> > wee bit pompous to one ear
>> >
>> > (though it is)
>> >
>> > it is the triteness of the rejection of human tribulation as trite in
>> > comparison to the richness (rank? high rank?) of nature that I have to
>> > object to.
>> >
>> > You write as if Nature exists independently of our capacity to sense it
>>and
>> > make sense of it. As if the socially fascinating issues of human rank
>>and
>> > the rankness of a river were not, equally, human concepts created by us
>>out
>> > of the very mud that fashions our flesh
>> >
>> > Unlike Tom, I see some hope of poetic redemption for you.
>> >
>> > As you righly point out
>> >
>> >  most of us
>> > > > remain on the edge and refuse
>> > > > or hesitate
>> > > > to return to a primordial element.
>> >
>> > not least your own poem, which feels as if it is tempted to dive into
>>the
>> > convoluted depths of a psychic underworld but then finds itself in the
>> > outfall where
>> >
>> > >They all float with rising confidence.
>> >
>> > but don't give up. After your 100x100x100 words you may be immersed
>>enough
>> > to have the courage of your poetic convictions.
>> >
>> > Maybe then you'll be able to talk crap with the best of us ;-)
>> >
>> > Terri )O(
>
>
>
>
>bw
>James
>
>
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