Hi Frank,
Hope y don’t mind me joining in.
You’re making interesting comments here! Well, they interest me at any rate. 
Because I, too, feel I must have been off school on the day they taught all 
the stuff about apostrophes and the like. I struggle too. Perhaps the truth 
is I was never taught in a way that I could understand. Like you I sometimes 
find it a real effort and, like someone who stammers I sometimes used to go 
to great lengths (and amazing inventiveness), to try and make sure I could 
avoid things I couldn’t say. I think it’s called compensation.
With apostrophes there’s still times I just can’t work out what to do. The 
grammar checker on this machine isn’t always as helpful as I think it should 
be either. So, in an embarrassed way, I sidle up to someone I trust and say, 
“I want to write...” (and show him or her the phrase, and the troublesome 
word, and explain) “But this doesn’t seem to be right...”
Ha! I had a similar problem a few weeks ago with “people” “peoples” 
“people’s” and “peoples.’” I couldn’t work out which was the right one to 
use. I had to get help!
But I’ve also played games with poems to learn. I sort of get angry because 
I think, “I can speak this bloody language. So I’m going to write it down!” 
Because I feel that voice matters in poetry I’ve played with poems that flow 
out like conversation flows out – perhaps without a full stop until the very 
end. Sometimes I’ve played with apostrophes and set myself the challenge to 
include one somewhere on each line! I’ve sometimes surprised myself with 
what’s then turned up. (But not always.) Because I’ve been playing “practice 
matches and not real games” I’ve more chance of laughing at myself, of 
trying again and again, until I’ve got it right. With “its” it’s” and “its’” 
a short poem in a vernacular tone may be fun to try!
And I like what you say about how you discovered the significances of line 
endings by avoiding doing other things!
I’ve played similar sorts of games with hidden rules to incorporate 
particular words. And, sometimes, how words are constructed. I think, for 
instance, because I’m (again) using maybe too many words with an “ing” at 
the end I ought to try creating a poem or two that purposefully use as many 
as I can and then try to rewrite using none at all! The poems may be naff 
and not the kind of things to show to anyone else – but that’s not the 
point...
I remember once, (Oh, it's story time...) when I played football (soccer) 
the coach making two of us play for half an hour wearing a trainer on our 
right foot and a boot on our left. Why us? I thought. Most of the team were 
right-footed! And did it feel odd? You bet! Embarrassed? Yeah (Ever tried 
running round in odd shoes?). We soon learnt, tho, that we actually could do 
what he’d never seen us do – pass, and even shoot, with our left feet! And 
did it work? Yeh! I then played two full seasons in the left midfield (still 
using my right foot most of the time – and putting thro passes 
left-midfield-players could rarely do) but, when the need arose, doing 
things I never would have tried with my left.
I also find conversations about the grammar I use in my poems really 
terrifying. If someone says things about my “prepositional clauses,” or my 
“subjunctives” (or anything else like that!) I panic - and hope I can then 
say “show me what you mean.” – and, as well as seeing how they modify what 
I’ve written, I’m desperately whispering under my breath “So that’s a 
prepositional clause!” It seems such a big phrase for such a small thing. 
And I never seem to remember the names of all these things... (The names, it 
seems, were invented by some smartarses who loved Latin names more than they 
loved English grammar!) But in the piece that I’ve written I, hopefully, can 
see what’s meant! And how the changes actually change what I’ve written.
One thing that makes me really sad, tho, is children who’re terrified of 
writing poems and stories because they don’t know how to spell things, or 
write things correctly. They stop in mid-flow and seem to lose what they 
had. I always want to say to them, “Write it first, correct it later!” 
perhaps because that’s what works for me, that’s what I do myself.
Bob

PS   I agree with your comment about italics in the middle of the poem too. 
It might help to make things clearer. Italics are a good tool (and are a lot 
easier to create with a word processor than the old clockwork typewriter!).

>From: Frank Faust <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: sub - lino dancing - arthur
>Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:14:53 +1000
>
>Hi Arthur,
>
>Thanks for your comments. The layout is a little incorrect for this medum, 
>inasmuch as the middle stanzas should have been in italics (which I think 
>helps just a little).
>
>As for the caps and punctuation - I rarely use either for the simple reason 
>that its its' and it's and the various other punctuations are a little more 
>technical than ever I mastered. I don't get my punctuations perfect and it 
>irritates me to have what I know to be basic mistakes being corrected by 
>readers, mainly because I know it detracts from reading the words 
>themselves.
>
>A second (and third) and more positive reason is that I believe absence of 
>punctuation forces me to try to use my line breaks more constructively - as 
>a means of guiding the reader - and my own conventions about sentence 
>construction can be flaunted - another form of licence.
>
>mainly it has come about through irritation - I don't want to read critique 
>about my punctuational inadequacies, much more interested in comment about 
>what I have said or tried to say and the way that comes across.
>
>Cheers and thanks,
>
>Frank
>
>>Delightful and smooth.
>>I didn't like your eschewing capitals but after a while it didn't matter.
>>As a matter of interest when you eschew punctuation as you have done here 
>>I
>>assume it is a thoughtful act chosen in the interests of the poem. It 
>>would
>>be enlightening to understand the criteria you apply when making that
>>choice. Is it some sort of clue to a ' stream of consciousness' approach??
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Frank Faust" <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 10:05 AM
>>Subject: sub - lino dancing
>>
>>
>> > her feet are moving
>> > it is a vigorous kind of dance step
>> > that flows up and down and across
>> > the lines that mark the squares
>> > that are the linoleum on the kitchen floor
>> >
>> > my grandparents house
>> > had a verandah and a view
>> > that looked down upon the city
>> > and over the twinkling lights
>> > that meant brisbane to me
>> > when I was small
>> >
>> > the verandah was enclosed in glass
>> > I used to glide away the hours
>> > with the elvis broom and my reflection
>> > each night I danced above the city
>> > I was happy
>> >
>> > she leans herself against me
>> > feet rapping a tattoo
>> > they move out as she slides down
>> > come back as she stands higher
>> > as a young girl she liked to dance
>> > above brisbane
>> >
>> > ~
>> >
>> > The Tales of Faust poetry page can be found at:
>> > http://www.hotkey.net.au/~flp/F_index.htm
>> >
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
>> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
>
>
>The Tales of Faust poetry page can be found at: 
>http://www.hotkey.net.au/~flp/F_index.htm
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
>http://www.hotmail.com














_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx