my point being not that I just am a fluff when it comes to giving my
thoughts about a piece of work, but that I try to figure out what that
writer will probably figure out on her or his own if s/he continues
writing. And Zoe is obviously brilliant, and she'll figure that stuff out
on her own. In the meantime, why tell her to stop?

At 10:31 AM 10/4/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>I almost agree with you too, Dave.
>
>Last year I had a revelation. I realized that, for me, it is important to
>give a kind of commentary to a young writer that for me feels like LYING.
>During a bunch of MLA interviews last year I found myself saying things
>like, "It is very important, I feel, to balance praise with honesty," I
>said it so much I actually after a while began to think about what I was
>saying (perish the thought, Gudding!)
>
>And I began to suspect that I have never really been terribly helpful to a
>student when being "honest" with that student -- because I think it is
>very rare to be honest about a piece in a way that's useful to someone.
>What I mean is that for me there is no hard truth about any given piece --
>that its turgid or that its overly adjectival -- and so the ethos of
>"brutal honesty," as they say just kind of dissipated in me one day.  I
>find that more and more I'm praising students, encouraging them to do
>whatever they do.
>
>Horrifying thoughts like "Yo what if someone told Melvin Tolson not to
>write turgidly or not to center his poems when he was a young writer? We'd
>be bereft of Libretto for the Republic of LIberia." I'm like, what if its
>Zoe's LOVE OF ADJECTIVE that's giving her the impetus to write in the
>first place -- to be as obviously brilliantly inventive as she is? Who the
>heck is David Bircumshaw (the cad) (<---joke!) to "be honest" to her about
>his opinion of her work!? Like, my point being that I personally stopped
>being so "honest" about the PRODUCT out of total and absolute and sheer
>respect for the impetus of a young writer's PROCESS -- for want of a
>better binary. Like, do you see what I mean?
>
>Like,
>Gabe
>
>At 02:43 PM 10/4/2002 +0100, you wrote:
>>I agree with you + almost+ entirely, Gabe.
>>
>>Where praise for Zoe's poem is concerned I am there with you, and as for the
>>chant, yup, me too, but all I was trying to do was say something
>>constructive, I know that for myself I dislike indiscriminate praise, I
>>prefer honest critiques, but that a twelve year old has done something like
>>that is wonderful, but it doesn't mean that she should be plied with
>>flattery, it's no good to any writer, of whatever age.
>>
>>Where the poem is good is in its awareness of rhythm and rhyme and its
>>searching for imagery, that is remarkable, where it is weak is in its
>>overwriting, I think too Zoe is trying to imitate her mom and just missing,
>>it's far better than anything I could have written at that age for sure.
>>
>>Best
>>:)
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>David Bircumshaw
>>
>>Leicester, England
>>
>>Home Page
>>
>>A Chide's Alphabet
>>
>>Painting Without Numbers
>>
>>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Gabriel Gudding" <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 2:00 PM
>>Subject: Re: Zoe's poem
>>
>>
>>Ahh c'mon DAVE!: praise can stand alone w/out the kneejerk response (no
>>offense) toward the "honest"! can't it? -- especially where a 12 year old
>>who's obviously brilliant is involved. If she's figured out how to do THIS
>>by this point, she'll eventually figure out how to not be turgid,
>>right?  BRAVA ZOE! :)  :) :)
>>
>>ZO-EE!!! ZO-EE!!! ZO-EE!!!!
>>
>>:)
>>
>>emoticonicly yours,
>>gabe
>>
>>At 12:30 PM 10/4/2002 +0100, you wrote:
>> >Naow, Sam, not churlish, but honest. And honesty is a prerequisite of
>> >respect, which is what anyone deserves. Zoe's poem is brilliant for someone
>> >of her age, there are things she needs to learn, like not being
>> >over-adjectival, but that's the same process of learning we all have to go
>> >through. As I said, the delicacy of ear shown speaks of real promise, I do
>> >like the piece, but I'm sure truthful reservations accompanied with genuine
>> >praise are better than frothy gurglings.
>> >
>> >Best
>> >
>> >Dave
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >David Bircumshaw
>> >
>> >Leicester, England
>> >
>> >Home Page
>> >
>> >A Chide's Alphabet
>> >
>> >Painting Without Numbers
>> >
>> >http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Sam Brenton" <[log in to unmask]>
>> >To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> >Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 12:00 PM
>> >Subject: Re: Zoe's poem
>> >
>> >
>> > >It would be churlish to take a
>> > >12 year olds piece to task but she does need to know about avoiding
>> >'poetic'
>> > >words (e.g. 'shards' Yeek!)
>> >
>> >Churlish!
>> >
>> >
>> >- Sam ;-)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >  but I liked the delicacy of the rhyming and the
>> > >last line in particular, an 'ocean hanging off' the 'cheek'.
>> > >
>> > >Nice one Zoe!
>> > >
>> > >Best
>> > >
>> > >Dave
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >David Bircumshaw
>> > >
>> > >Leicester, England
>> > >
>> > >Home Page
>> > >
>> > >A Chide's Alphabet
>> > >
>> > >Painting Without Numbers
>> > >
>> > >http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Sam Brenton, Educational Technologist
>> >Educational and Staff Development
>> >Queen Mary, University of London
>> >Mile End Road, London, E1 4NS
>> >Tel: 020 7882 5309
>> >Fax: 020 7882 3159
>> >http://www.admin.qmul.ac.uk/esd/ltech