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Churchill sent the tanks into Glasgow and Maggie took on the miners.
Douglas Clark, Bath, England mailto: [log in to unmask]
Lynx: Poetry from Bath .......... http://www.bath.ac.uk/~exxdgdc/lynx.html
On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Lawrence Upton wrote:
> Where I come from, which is called the United States of America, as you
> *know - it's the most free and the most efficient country in the world - we
> have political understanding in our blood. This isn't a racist statement; we
> just are superior, buddy. We taught the French the importance of Liberty. We
> saw off the British King.
>
> Don't argue with me. I speak for all Americans. Yes, Americans. Where would
> that lot in the north be without us Americans. Another mess left to us by
> the Europeans. I speak for all right-thinking Americans.
>
> Churchill is still remembered fifty years after he died, right? Doesn't that
> tell you something? I mean, he's historic, right? Over here, in the USA, all
> of us spring from the rich soil of Democracy. Our land creates heroes as it
> creates wealth. But your dried up little country, just one among a whole
> tangle of dehydrated rubbish tips, you, you need special people, like
> Churchill. He saw off the unions and the other dangers. He had the courage
> to call *us in to defeat Hitler and Stalin. And you remember him. What does
> that tell you?
>
> And Thatcher. Why is Thatcher in every newspaper? Because you want to read
> about her, right? Newspapers don't print lies, they don't print things that
> people don't want to read. They're businesses. Business has to be ethical or
> it won't survive. You Brits, you're so busy worrying about your Lords and
> your monuments, you don't see the way things are. You're all too worried
> about which country you belong to. Countries, Jesus. Tiny places about the
> size of my arse. I thought the Romans would have sorted all that out. Well,
> apparently, they didn't; so we're going to do it. Get some competition in
> and shake you jerks up.
>
> Like we did with the Indians, like we're doing with the frigging
> Palestinians. If you can't feed yourselves and can't see which life skills
> you need to develop to succeed, you should be dead. And maybe we'll kill
> you. If we don't, the funadmentalist Muslims will. I mean, for Christ sake,
> you elected Thatcher and then blamed her, even though you didn't do what
> she said. Read the instructions Dumbo!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Dillon" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: 20 March 2002 16:20
> Subject: Re: RadLib Cannibals
>
>
> Like Churchill, she's an historic figure in Britland. Only the
> noboddies pay her no heed. Without her, your country lacks torque.
>
> After the guillotine, behold the headline: _RadLib Cannibals Eat
> Each Other Alive!_
>
>
> >Thatcher's been long since defeated, I'll think you'll find. Nobody pays
> her
> >any attention anymore except the media and right-wing loonies.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >Jon
> >
> >>From: Richard Dillon <[log in to unmask]>
> >>Reply-To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and
> >> poetics <[log in to unmask]>
> >>To: [log in to unmask]
> >>Subject: Re: RadLib Cannibals
> >>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:08:10 -0500
> >>
> >>Just deal with it instead of going ad hominem.
> >>
> >>If you don't want to defeat me, defeat Baroness Thatcher.
> >>
> >>Or explain Gorby away.
> >>
> >>I listened to Allen Ginsberg [and RadLib allies] for ten years in
> >>Colorado. He taught me all I know with the aid of a little algebra.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Richard:
> >>>
> >>>Most of what you offer here has been already offered by this
> >>>century's version of Walter ("Match me, Sidney." J.J. Hunsucker)
> >>>Winchell, skin-crawler,Matt Drudge.
> >>>
> >>>With my dial tuned and my ear seared I heard it all on last night's
> >>>big broadcast, especially the intonation of "Baroness"!
> >>>
> >>>If you're going to paprika the list with this kind of stuff, please,
> >>>as Ronald Johnson wrote in one of his cookbooks, "don't use the
> >>>canned, bottled paprika. Use the fresh stuff!"
> >>>
> >>>Gerald
> >>>
> >>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>Richard Dillon
> >>>To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]
> >>>Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 1:36 PM
> >>>Subject: RadLib Cannibals
> >>>
> >>>Dave,
> >>>
> >>>May she turn the tide and lead us through the waters parted by her
> >>>incantation:
> >>>
> >>>>I cite these words by Baroness Thatcher in particular:
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>>"During my lifetime most of the problems the world has faced have
> >>>>come, in one fashion or another, from mainland Europe, and the
> >>>>solutions from outside it," she writes.
> >>>>
> >>>"That generalisation is clearly true of the Second World War. Nazism
> >>>was, after all, a European ideology, the Third Reich an attempt at
> >>>European domination.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The solutions came from the United States because we succeeded in
> >>>revolting against your monarchical systems [and, later, in waylaying
> >>>your Radical Idealisms, MarxIsm and NaziIsm]. However, our
> >>>revolution is endangered by RadLib intellectuals here who go to
> >>>places like Oxford or Freiburg and get "educated". Then, they [the
> >>>traitor William Jefferson Blythe Clinton is a foremost example]
> >>>return and set out on their dark work: To "Deconstruct" the American
> >>>Constitution and culture.
> >>>
> >>>_100 Days_, published in England by such seditionist intellectuals
> >>>like Andrea Brady [Harvard, Cambridge], is the preeminent example of
> >>>RadLib Fifth Column agitprop.
> >>>
> >>>Question: What is the difference between Mrs. Thatcher's
> >>>accusations against Internationalist Control of the U.K. and that of
> >>>the Anarch Student Rioters of Genoa, Seattle, Toronto?
> >>>
> >>>Try some Thatcher-Reagan Tea, AND SEE!
> >>>
> >>>Richard
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>March 18, 2002
> >>>Thatcher: Britain must start to quit EU
> >>>By Philip Webster, Political Editor
> >>>
> >>>THE time has come for Britain to start pulling out of the European
> >>>Union, according to Baroness Thatcher. She damns the EU as
> >>>"fundamentally unreformable".
> >>>
> >>>The former Prime Minister says in her new book, serialised in The
> >>>Times, that most of the problems the world has faced, including
> >>>Nazism and Marxism, have come from mainland Europe. Enoch Powell had
> >>>been right when he gave warning in the 1970s that entry to the
> >>>Common Market involved an unacceptable loss of sovereignty.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Lady Thatcher calls for renegotiation of Britains terms of EU
> >>>membership to enable it to leave the common agricultural and
> >>>fisheries policies, the common foreign and security policy, and to
> >>>reassert domestic control over trade policy. She also suggests
> >>>joining the North Atlantic Free Trade Agreement, a decision that
> >>>would be seen as incompatible with EU membership.
> >>>
> >>>Although she does not say it in so many words, such moves would mean
> >>>that Britain was no longer effectively in the EU. In any event the
> >>>demands, which she urges an incoming Tory government to make as a
> >>>preliminary step, would be refused by the rest of the EU, leaving
> >>>Britain no alternative but to quit.
> >>>
> >>>She writes in Statecraft: "It is frequently said to be unthinkable
> >>>that Britain should leave the European Union. But the avoidance of
> >>>thought about this is a poor substitute for judgment."
> >>>
> >>>Lady Thatcher's views will embarrass Iain Duncan Smith after a
> >>>period in which the Tory leader has engineered a party truce on
> >>>Europe and at a time when he is preparing to modernise his party's
> >>>appeal.
> >>>
> >>>While he is poised today to attack Tony Blair over the outcome of
> >>>the Barcelona summit, the Prime Minister is certain to use the
> >>>Commons exchanges to challenge him to disavow Lady Thatcher. Her
> >>>remarks will be a godsend to a Government struggling to recover from
> >>>accusations of sleaze and lack of delivery over public service
> >>>reform.
> >>>
> >>>Mr Duncan Smith was always one of Lady Thatcher's strongest
> >>>supporters, and there are several members of the Shadow Cabinet,
> >>>such as Bernard Jenkin, John Whittingdale, John Bercow and Tim
> >>>Collins, who would privately agree with much of what she says. As
> >>>many as 30 Tory MPs would probably privately support a
> >>>"withdrawalist" line.
> >>>
> >>>Mr Duncan Smith has successfully urged his colleagues to speak less
> >>>about Europe and to concentrate on domestic issues. While making
> >>>plain that the Tories would campaign against the euro if there was a
> >>>referendum, he has taken the sting out of the debate by saying that
> >>>MPs would be free to campaign in the opposite camp if they wished.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Mr Duncan Smith's spokesman said of Lady Thatchers remarks last
> >>>night: "Naturally relations between Iain and Lady Thatcher are close
> >>>and cordial and she has done us the courtesy of sending an advance
> >>>copy of the book. We will not comment directly on the book but we
> >>>will read it with interest.
> >>>
> >>>"Iain's position on Europe was summed up in an article this weekend.
> >>>
> >>>He said: "We must keep our currency. It is the only way we can be
> >>>masters of our own taxes, mortgage rates and spending on our schools
> >>>and hospitals. I will never allow EU membership to mean Britain
> >>>loses control over its own destiny. While I lead the Conservatives I
> >>>will always fight to keep the pound."
> >>>
> >>>Lady Thatcher stops short of calling for a total withdrawal from
> >>>Europe, preferring to retain some existing arrangements while opting
> >>>out of "present and future mechanisms which harm our interests or
> >>>restrict our freedom of action".
> >>>
> >>>This might not be as difficult as it sounds because the "blunt truth
> >>>is that the rest of the European Union needs us more than we need
> >>>them."
> >>>
> >>>Britain had substantial advantages in any renegotiation because it
> >>>was a substantial net importer from the rest of the EU, a
> >>>substantial contributor to the CAP, its fish stocks were extremely
> >>>important to other countries, and it remained a global power.
> >>>
> >>>She goes on: "Against this background we should have every
> >>>confidence that we can achieve a sensible framework within which to
> >>>defend and pursue our interest while having co-operative relations
> >>>with the European countries.
> >>>
> >>>"The preliminary step, I believe, should be for an incoming
> >>>Conservative government to declare publicly that it seeks
> >>>fundamental renegotiation of Britain's terms of EU membership. The
> >>>objectives would be a withdrawal from the CAP, an end to our
> >>>adherence to the common fisheries policy, withdrawal from all the
> >>>entanglements of a common foreign and security policy and a
> >>>reassertion of control of our trade policy."
> >>>
> >>> Lady Thatcher's coolness towards Europe is legendary, but her book
> >>>takes it to a new intensity.
> >>>
> >>>"During my lifetime most of the problems the world has faced have
> >>>come, in one fashion or another, from mainland Europe, and the
> >>>solutions from outside it," she writes.
> >>>
> >>>"That generalisation is clearly true of the Second World War. Nazism
> >>>was, after all, a European ideology, the Third Reich an attempt at
> >>>European domination.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Oh, Richard, how many times do people have to tell you this: outside US
> >>>>domestic politics the term 'RadLib' has no meaning.
> >>>>
> >>>>I did almost collapse in laughter at one of your recent posts when you
> >>>>accused people on this list of 'sedition'. As I, and many others, are
> not
> >>>>US
> >>>>citizens and therefore have no legal obligation to your status system
> >>>>what
> >>>>were you thinking about?
> >>>>
> >>>>I'm tempted to go to Boston (UK, Lincolnshire to be precise, it's a
> right
> >>>>dump, but the original one, as in Boston not dump) and look for tea-bags
> >>>>to
> >>>>throw into the sea.
> >>>>
> >>>>Best
> >>>>
> >>>>Dave
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>David Bircumshaw
> >>>>
> >>>>Leicester, England
> >>>>
> >>>>Home Page
> >>>>
> >>>>A Chide's Alphabet
> >>>>
> >>>>Painting Without Numbers
> >>>>
> >>>>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm
> >>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>From: "Richard Dillon" <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 5:37 PM
> >>>>Subject: Re: no subject left! Lefts.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>RadLib Cannibals!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Erminia
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I don't want to get drawn into this but I have to say there were
> >>>>>elements
> >>>>in
> >>>>>your messages to Martin that +were+ patronising and even downright
> rude.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>As for typos, why not use a spell-checker on your e-mails? They can be
> >>>>>irritating but would also expunge the obvious mistakes. While in
> respect
> >>>>>of
> >>>>>English as a fourth language, well the primary is dialect of this list
> >>>>>is
> >>>>>English, I wouldn't even think of communicating to an Italian language
> >>>>>list
> >>>>>in flawed speech, while if you are a tutor at an Oxford college while
> >>>>>not
> >>>>>having a command of the host country's language how do you square that
> >>>>>with
> >>>>>an incapacity to handle that language?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>With tea and biscuits?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>(And I do like the posts you send about Italian poetry btw)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Best but Bewildered
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Dave
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>David Bircumshaw
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Leicester, England
> >>>>
> >>> >
> >>>>Home Page
> >>>>
> >>>>A Chide's Alphabet
> >>>>
> >>>>Painting Without Numbers
> >>>>
> >>>>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm
> >>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>From: "Erminia Passannanti" <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 3:49 PM
> >>>>Subject: Re: no subject
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:24:45 +0100, Martin J. Walker <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>Erminia, *you* didn't even understand that I fully understood the
> >>>>>Italian
> >>>>>for Kritik der reinen Vernunft (Critique, not Critic) and gave you a
> >>>>>brief
> >>>>>(slightly humorous) reply. I find your tone less "comical" than
> >>>>offensively
> >>>>>patronizing; one of the forms of ethical behaviour is to assume your
> >>>>>vis-à
> >>>>>vis is not a complete idiot.
> >>>>
> >>>>One: if I though you were an idiot, I would have treated you with
> >>>>greatest
> >>>>kindness, respect and concern. Since I think you are not, I also believe
> >>>
> >>> >you can stand the challenge and resist running in tears to your Mummy
> >>>(the
> >>>
> >>> >list Big_Mother) to ask protection from his naughty Italian girl
> >>>>who 'patronizes ' you.
> >>>>
> >>>>Two: Ethical behavior is what restrains me constantly from saying, all
> >>>>the
> >>>>time, what I actually think of the style used on this list by all the
> >>>>other listees when they address each-other(from mandarinism to
> brutalism,
> >>>>none of which appeals to me, to be frank). But my delicacy towards your
> >>>>bad manners is obviously not reciprocated, since every now and then,
> from
> >>>>my screen, here springs out a head, which a regard as that of a
> telematic
> >>>>mushroom, screaming 'Erminia is patronizing', 'Erminia is
> >>>>this...', 'Erminia is that...' (defining what I am supposed to be)
> >>>>
> >>>>Therefore, I have 2 options: either I start defining myself what your
> >>>>defects in communication are, a list which would take me ages to
> compile,
> >>>>or I begin again evoking All the Holy Saints of the High circles, still
> >>>>provided with the law parts and organs of their human bodies, not
> >>>>leaving
> >>>>out any item which they contain.
> >>>>
> >>>>erminia
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
> --
>
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