Sorry if this appears twice. My college server is erratic lately, and it
didn't seem to go through first time. Slightly edited version here,
anyway. Kent

**

Erminia,

Thanks for the reply. Just a few things.

First of all, I don't resent anyone in Italy, and I've admired some of
what (admittedly) little I've read in the new Italian poetry (not
tremendously large amounts seem to be in translation, from what I
can see).

Secondly, my parting renga-sauce-over-the-pastiche comment was
trying to be funny-- though the funniness, I suppose, was also in
prickly reaction to your having called my reference to Japanese
poetry "funny," which I don't think it was. Your apparent
impression that the renga is a "very brief lyric" form *was,*
however, much funnier than anything I said. But that's no big deal--
obviously everyone is ignorant about certain things, and if you
asked me to provide a sound-bite on Commedia dell'Arte, for
example, or the importnace of Pascoli to Italian postmodernism, I'd
be stuck...

I don't think your use of Futurism (or Surrealism, much less the
Baroque!) as an analogy in this discussion is apropos, as it
represents a movement or tendency, one that encompassed a
variety of compositional predispositions and forms, whereas with
"pastiche" you've *seemed* to be talking about a specific form or
sub-genre. [nota: Some Russians might give you an argument on
the Italians "inventing" Futurism; the Italians certainly invented
*Italian* Futurism, but the Russians always claimed their version
was home-grown and preceded by more cutting-edge avant-garde
work in first decade of century than existed in Italy-- Khlebnikov, for
example was writing very futuristic stuff before 1909. And,
incidentally, I believe the Russian artists Komar and Melamid were
practicing this technique with a vengeance before the poets you
mention.]

But I say that "with 'pastiche' you've *seemed* to be talking about a
specific form or sub-genre," because I'm not entirely sure that
you've made clear what the topical parameters are in your
argument. You keep insisting on Eco as the original inventor (you
have mentioned both The Name of the Rose and Foucault's
Pendulum). But it's here that things get confused, because, and as
I said before, it's obviously not the case that either one of those
novels is composed *entirely* via pastiche, and that the technique
of appropriation, quotation, and collage is just that-- a *technique*,
not a "form," and this technique is nothing new. So partly for this
reason I've questioned the accuracy and motivation of assigning
Italian postmodern "origin" to a compostional strategy that is well-
known as a hallmark of early poetic modernism, not to mention
much earlier examples.

Finally, since for you the enactment of individual composition
seems key to the generic definiton of the pastiche "form," let me
say that the renga is *usually* a collaborative form, but that there are
also many examples of solo-renga. In some of these, pastiche, via
paraphrase and quotation, is freely used, from the 15th century
master Sogi up through the more radical and cross-generic
collages of poets of the OARS group in the 70's and 80's. No doubt
there are other non-western examples of pastiche in poetry. So
again, I think it's somewhat innacurate, in this case, at least, to
wave national banners over a particular "technique."

Kent

**

Erminia said,

>>>Dear Kent,

 you seem to resent that Italians of the Gruppo '(£ along with Eco
invented

 the pastiche, but I am 10-0 per cent sure that you do not resent or
negate
 or confront the fact that the Italian Futurists invented Futurism, and
you
 surely do not resent the fact that the Commedia dell'Arte was an
Italian
 theatre convention: you surely do not oppose the fact that the
sonnet was
 an Italian form, and so on...
 Is your resistance a political one? If yes, I deeply respect it.
 Or is because we all need somewhat 20 years before
acknowledging fashions,
 modes, heroes and myths?
 You and Alison are trying to pull your cords in the hope to derail
the
 official description of where and what and who made the first
attempt at
 postmodernist poetry of pastiche: which if you want I could here
describe
 and which is not collaborative poetry, or simple quotational poetry
 (although quotation is at its very core). It is a form that springs out
 from such a complex network of influences, philosophical in fact,
and
 anthropological (since the importance of Backtin in this field in Italy
 has been enormous, so that you could not enter any literature
class
 without knowing how to quote Backtin theory of the Carnival and
the
 plurivocity by heart.
 But , well, why am I trying to convince you? For what?
 If you wish to negate the Italian origin of postmodernist pastiche,
then I
 expect next you will negate the fact that surrealism was originated
in
 France (and maybe find out that Breton had copied its Manifesto
from some
 other author), and you might say that Baroque was infact an
invention of
 the Chinese, as much as the spaghetti (which of course it is true).
 I have to go: my job of a cab-woman starts now, at 12.00.

 Regardissimi,

 Erminia




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