Thatcher's been long since defeated, I'll think you'll find. Nobody pays her
any attention anymore except the media and right-wing loonies.
Cheers,
Jon
>From: Richard Dillon <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and
> poetics <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: RadLib Cannibals
>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:08:10 -0500
>
>Just deal with it instead of going ad hominem.
>
>If you don't want to defeat me, defeat Baroness Thatcher.
>
>Or explain Gorby away.
>
>I listened to Allen Ginsberg [and RadLib allies] for ten years in
>Colorado. He taught me all I know with the aid of a little algebra.
>
>
>
>
>>Richard:
>>
>>Most of what you offer here has been already offered by this
>>century's version of Walter ("Match me, Sidney." J.J. Hunsucker)
>>Winchell, skin-crawler,Matt Drudge.
>>
>>With my dial tuned and my ear seared I heard it all on last night's
>>big broadcast, especially the intonation of "Baroness"!
>>
>>If you're going to paprika the list with this kind of stuff, please,
>>as Ronald Johnson wrote in one of his cookbooks, "don't use the
>>canned, bottled paprika. Use the fresh stuff!"
>>
>>Gerald
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>Richard Dillon
>>To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]
>>Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 1:36 PM
>>Subject: RadLib Cannibals
>>
>>Dave,
>>
>>May she turn the tide and lead us through the waters parted by her
>>incantation:
>>
>>
>>>I cite these words by Baroness Thatcher in particular:
>>>
>>
>>>"During my lifetime most of the problems the world has faced have
>>>come, in one fashion or another, from mainland Europe, and the
>>>solutions from outside it," she writes.
>>>
>>"That generalisation is clearly true of the Second World War. Nazism
>>was, after all, a European ideology, the Third Reich an attempt at
>>European domination.
>>
>>
>>
>>The solutions came from the United States because we succeeded in
>>revolting against your monarchical systems [and, later, in waylaying
>>your Radical Idealisms, MarxIsm and NaziIsm]. However, our
>>revolution is endangered by RadLib intellectuals here who go to
>>places like Oxford or Freiburg and get "educated". Then, they [the
>>traitor William Jefferson Blythe Clinton is a foremost example]
>>return and set out on their dark work: To "Deconstruct" the American
>>Constitution and culture.
>>
>>_100 Days_, published in England by such seditionist intellectuals
>>like Andrea Brady [Harvard, Cambridge], is the preeminent example of
>>RadLib Fifth Column agitprop.
>>
>>Question: What is the difference between Mrs. Thatcher's
>>accusations against Internationalist Control of the U.K. and that of
>>the Anarch Student Rioters of Genoa, Seattle, Toronto?
>>
>>Try some Thatcher-Reagan Tea, AND SEE!
>>
>>Richard
>>
>>>
>>March 18, 2002
>>Thatcher: Britain must start to quit EU
>>By Philip Webster, Political Editor
>>
>>THE time has come for Britain to start pulling out of the European
>>Union, according to Baroness Thatcher. She damns the EU as
>>"fundamentally unreformable".
>>
>>The former Prime Minister says in her new book, serialised in The
>>Times, that most of the problems the world has faced, including
>>Nazism and Marxism, have come from mainland Europe. Enoch Powell had
>>been right when he gave warning in the 1970s that entry to the
>>Common Market involved an unacceptable loss of sovereignty.
>>
>>
>>Lady Thatcher calls for renegotiation of Britains terms of EU
>>membership to enable it to leave the common agricultural and
>>fisheries policies, the common foreign and security policy, and to
>>reassert domestic control over trade policy. She also suggests
>>joining the North Atlantic Free Trade Agreement, a decision that
>>would be seen as incompatible with EU membership.
>>
>>Although she does not say it in so many words, such moves would mean
>>that Britain was no longer effectively in the EU. In any event the
>>demands, which she urges an incoming Tory government to make as a
>>preliminary step, would be refused by the rest of the EU, leaving
>>Britain no alternative but to quit.
>>
>>She writes in Statecraft: "It is frequently said to be unthinkable
>>that Britain should leave the European Union. But the avoidance of
>>thought about this is a poor substitute for judgment."
>>
>>Lady Thatcher's views will embarrass Iain Duncan Smith after a
>>period in which the Tory leader has engineered a party truce on
>>Europe and at a time when he is preparing to modernise his party's
>>appeal.
>>
>>While he is poised today to attack Tony Blair over the outcome of
>>the Barcelona summit, the Prime Minister is certain to use the
>>Commons exchanges to challenge him to disavow Lady Thatcher. Her
>>remarks will be a godsend to a Government struggling to recover from
>>accusations of sleaze and lack of delivery over public service
>>reform.
>>
>>Mr Duncan Smith was always one of Lady Thatcher's strongest
>>supporters, and there are several members of the Shadow Cabinet,
>>such as Bernard Jenkin, John Whittingdale, John Bercow and Tim
>>Collins, who would privately agree with much of what she says. As
>>many as 30 Tory MPs would probably privately support a
>>"withdrawalist" line.
>>
>>Mr Duncan Smith has successfully urged his colleagues to speak less
>>about Europe and to concentrate on domestic issues. While making
>>plain that the Tories would campaign against the euro if there was a
>>referendum, he has taken the sting out of the debate by saying that
>>MPs would be free to campaign in the opposite camp if they wished.
>>
>>
>>Mr Duncan Smith's spokesman said of Lady Thatchers remarks last
>>night: "Naturally relations between Iain and Lady Thatcher are close
>>and cordial and she has done us the courtesy of sending an advance
>>copy of the book. We will not comment directly on the book but we
>>will read it with interest.
>>
>>"Iain's position on Europe was summed up in an article this weekend.
>>
>>He said: "We must keep our currency. It is the only way we can be
>>masters of our own taxes, mortgage rates and spending on our schools
>>and hospitals. I will never allow EU membership to mean Britain
>>loses control over its own destiny. While I lead the Conservatives I
>>will always fight to keep the pound."
>>
>>Lady Thatcher stops short of calling for a total withdrawal from
>>Europe, preferring to retain some existing arrangements while opting
>>out of "present and future mechanisms which harm our interests or
>>restrict our freedom of action".
>>
>>This might not be as difficult as it sounds because the "blunt truth
>>is that the rest of the European Union needs us more than we need
>>them."
>>
>>Britain had substantial advantages in any renegotiation because it
>>was a substantial net importer from the rest of the EU, a
>>substantial contributor to the CAP, its fish stocks were extremely
>>important to other countries, and it remained a global power.
>>
>>She goes on: "Against this background we should have every
>>confidence that we can achieve a sensible framework within which to
>>defend and pursue our interest while having co-operative relations
>>with the European countries.
>>
>>"The preliminary step, I believe, should be for an incoming
>>Conservative government to declare publicly that it seeks
>>fundamental renegotiation of Britain's terms of EU membership. The
>>objectives would be a withdrawal from the CAP, an end to our
>>adherence to the common fisheries policy, withdrawal from all the
>>entanglements of a common foreign and security policy and a
>>reassertion of control of our trade policy."
>>
>> Lady Thatcher's coolness towards Europe is legendary, but her book
>>takes it to a new intensity.
>>
>>"During my lifetime most of the problems the world has faced have
>>come, in one fashion or another, from mainland Europe, and the
>>solutions from outside it," she writes.
>>
>>"That generalisation is clearly true of the Second World War. Nazism
>>was, after all, a European ideology, the Third Reich an attempt at
>>European domination.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Oh, Richard, how many times do people have to tell you this: outside US
>>>domestic politics the term 'RadLib' has no meaning.
>>>
>>>I did almost collapse in laughter at one of your recent posts when you
>>>accused people on this list of 'sedition'. As I, and many others, are not
>>>US
>>>citizens and therefore have no legal obligation to your status system
>>>what
>>>were you thinking about?
>>>
>>>I'm tempted to go to Boston (UK, Lincolnshire to be precise, it's a right
>>>dump, but the original one, as in Boston not dump) and look for tea-bags
>>>to
>>>throw into the sea.
>>>
>>>Best
>>>
>>>Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>David Bircumshaw
>>>
>>>Leicester, England
>>>
>>>Home Page
>>>
>>>A Chide's Alphabet
>>>
>>>Painting Without Numbers
>>>
>>>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Richard Dillon" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 5:37 PM
>>>Subject: Re: no subject left! Lefts.
>>>
>>>
>>>RadLib Cannibals!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Erminia
>>>>
>>>>I don't want to get drawn into this but I have to say there were
>>>>elements
>>>in
>>>>your messages to Martin that +were+ patronising and even downright rude.
>>>>
>>>>As for typos, why not use a spell-checker on your e-mails? They can be
>>>>irritating but would also expunge the obvious mistakes. While in respect
>>>>of
>>>>English as a fourth language, well the primary is dialect of this list
>>>>is
>>>>English, I wouldn't even think of communicating to an Italian language
>>>>list
>>>>in flawed speech, while if you are a tutor at an Oxford college while
>>>>not
>>>>having a command of the host country's language how do you square that
>>>>with
>>>>an incapacity to handle that language?
>>>>
>>>>With tea and biscuits?
>>>>
>>>>(And I do like the posts you send about Italian poetry btw)
>>>>
>>>>Best but Bewildered
>>>>
>>>>Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>David Bircumshaw
>>>>
>>>>Leicester, England
>>>
>> >
>>>Home Page
>>>
>>>A Chide's Alphabet
>>>
>>>Painting Without Numbers
>>>
>>>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Erminia Passannanti" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 3:49 PM
>>>Subject: Re: no subject
>>>
>>>
>>>On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:24:45 +0100, Martin J. Walker <[log in to unmask]>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Erminia, *you* didn't even understand that I fully understood the
>>>>Italian
>>>>for Kritik der reinen Vernunft (Critique, not Critic) and gave you a
>>>>brief
>>>>(slightly humorous) reply. I find your tone less "comical" than
>>>offensively
>>>>patronizing; one of the forms of ethical behaviour is to assume your
>>>>vis-à
>>>>vis is not a complete idiot.
>>>
>>>One: if I though you were an idiot, I would have treated you with
>>>greatest
>>>kindness, respect and concern. Since I think you are not, I also believe
>>
>> >you can stand the challenge and resist running in tears to your Mummy
>>(the
>>
>> >list Big_Mother) to ask protection from his naughty Italian girl
>>>who 'patronizes ' you.
>>>
>>>Two: Ethical behavior is what restrains me constantly from saying, all
>>>the
>>>time, what I actually think of the style used on this list by all the
>>>other listees when they address each-other(from mandarinism to brutalism,
>>>none of which appeals to me, to be frank). But my delicacy towards your
>>>bad manners is obviously not reciprocated, since every now and then, from
>>>my screen, here springs out a head, which a regard as that of a telematic
>>>mushroom, screaming 'Erminia is patronizing', 'Erminia is
>>>this...', 'Erminia is that...' (defining what I am supposed to be)
>>>
>>>Therefore, I have 2 options: either I start defining myself what your
>>>defects in communication are, a list which would take me ages to compile,
>>>or I begin again evoking All the Holy Saints of the High circles, still
>>>provided with the law parts and organs of their human bodies, not
>>>leaving
>>>out any item which they contain.
>>>
>>>erminia
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>
>
>--
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