Last word on this from me, Dave: all I know is that you took the "heart"
(literally) out of someone else's poem and put it into something pretty sick
of your own. In my opinion, you owe Erminia an apology for that, and maybe
you'll get one in turn for the Italiano if you offer her one. Then we can
all drop this tedious thread, mercifully.
Thanks in advance,
Candice
on 1/6/02 4:41 PM, david.bircumshaw at [log in to unmask] wrote:
> Candice
>
> as you are perfectly aware, the Nazi thing was not a travesty of Erminia's
> poem but of her use of 'normal' as a desideratum. The idea was translate
> 'normal' to the Nazi world, the Nazis were nothing but 'normal' in their own
> eyes, and see what you get. You know this, I've explained it in detail,
> boringly and laboriously already, and I find your remarking on it again
> nothing short of disingenuous. I do wish I hadn't put that post up, but it's
> too late now, it wasn't worth the grief it's brought.
>
> As for my words and Erminia's, what can I say. I take it from this then it's
> ok, in your eyes, for some people to indulge in the most scurrilous forms of
> personal abuse, it's ok for some people to use lists as an exercise in
> ego-attention-seeking, but not for others to protest. Erminia made quite
> clear her position today: she does as she likes and fuck everyone else. If
> that's what you think lists are supposed to be for you're welcome to the
> feeling. It's not one I want. Throughout the day I've tried to avoid getting
> too drawn into it, one thought that passed my mind during the day was that
> there was no way you would come in on a rhinoceros charge on the back of
> Erminia's posts. But yet you have.
>
> And I don't take kindly to your substance that I'm in remark. That follows
> on exactly from Ermina's posts. I am not impressed. And why you are trying
> to inflate the non-aggressive exchange between Chris and myself into yet
> another row beats me.
>
>
> David Bircumshaw
>
> Leicester, England
>
> Home Page
>
> A Chide's Alphabet
>
> Painting Without Numbers
>
> www.paintstuff.20m.com/index.htm
>
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Candice Ward" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 9:12 PM
> Subject: Re: News Writing
>
>
> Nothing left to interpret, Dave, now that you've admitted it was
> news-writing you meant--apart from "pork pies," that is, which means???
>
> As for the "no personal abuse" rule, fortunately I'm no longer responsible
> for making or enforcing any Poetryetc rules (yippee!), but I will say (since
> _you_ raised the issue of "justice") that Erminia was provoked by the Nazi
> travesty you made of her poem, remember, an abuse of person and poetry
> (IMHO) that she did nothing to provoke from you, as far as I know. But
> then, it's hard to imagine a defensible provocation for that, and I find
> your attempt to deflect attention from your words to hers lame, to say the
> least. Maybe you should drop this now before the substance in which you're
> already up to your neck rises to drowning-pool level.
>
> Candice
>
>
>
>
>
> on 1/6/02 3:12 PM, david.bircumshaw at [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>> Flippin 'ell, Candice. Below is my original post, interpret it at will. As
>> for my _admonishing_ Erminia, are we talking about the same person here?
> The
>> same Erminia who has been happily insulting me all day on this list
>> (remember the 'no personal abuse' rule?) I'm amazed, I really am. Not
> angry,
>> but, to use that vulgarism, 'gob-smacked'.
>>
>> Obviously the fact that she's been merrily comparing me and my writing to
> a
>> pile of shit, telling me I have no business speaking on any lists etc is
>> entirely my fault and yet another example of my terrible behaviour.
>>
>> Aston Villa have just gone 2 up in as many minutes against Man Utd in the
> FA
>> Cup. There is some justice in the world.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> You might find Hans Magnus Enzenberger's comments on Stern in his
>>> book of essays _Mediocrities and Delusions_ interesting (apart from
>>> anything else, he's always a pleasure to read). He makes the same
>>> comment about media proprietors being more savvy about media theory
>>> than the students protesting against it.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for reminding me about that, Alison, I still recall coming across
>> HME's book one day in Leicester Library, I read it standing up without
>> taking it out on loan, and, Chris, I've no doubt about the accuracy of
> your
>> observations about L.Murdoch. I think, or rather suspect, that one of the
>> pifalls that language-centred persons, as poets tend to be, is that we
>> instinctively feel that those who use language like a soggy pork pie,
> circa
>> British Rail 1946 not sold until 199-something, after travelling the
> lengths
>> and breadths (notice those clever 's's, to avoid the cliché) must
> therefore
>> be our intellectual inferiors.
>> But of course they're not. They are 'savvy' people. They just don't share
>> our values.
>>
>> Nor their private pork pies, which are much fresher!
>>
>> (NB 'pork pies' means ....)
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Dave
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