With apologies to non LA/IIS members
Wonderful response- 155 (and I just realised to add myself!)
This is a first summary (it was even longer!). Sue and me will put together
a shorter, pithy version to lobby with, but this will take some work. I am
guessing that the best time to approach will be just after CILIP starts in
April, as then there will be the new governing body, and there is also
something intriguing in this week's LA Record re a review they are planning
re information provision to members. I did email the senior manager
responsible for this a couple of weeks ago for an update (see Jill Martin's
email right at the end, forwarded to me), but have had no reply.
*Please dont get your hopes up on this, by the way- we can lobby but may
have no luck.*
OK, here goes (numbers in brackets are the no given to each respondent):
SUMMARY: LISA ACCESS FROM LA/CILIP
A message was sent to the lis-medical discussion list, which is a list used
by many health information professionals in the UK and internationally. This
has 983 members (as at 7/2/2002), but it is unknown how many are members of
the LA or IIS, or work in the UK where these organisations are most likely
to be the professional groups of choice. A reminder was sent on 20th
February.
However, although it is unknown what proportion of total LA/IIS members on
the list replied, the fact that 156 replies were received shows a high
level of interest. Its likely that this group of LIS professionals are not
alone in having huge pressure on their time, and are not likely to respond
to a non-user query unless they think its an important issue.
RESULTS
152 of the 156 replies answered one or more question.
Q1 Do you think LISA should be provided by the LA (and later CILIP) to its
members?
Yes 151
There were some comments adding more emphasis eg 'excellent idea' (013),
'absolutely!' (024), definitely (037,040), and would be 'greatly
welcomed'(036)
LISA is seen as a useful resource
It would be so nice to be able to access such a valuable resource. (103) .
I used it at University six years ago and it was an excellent resource that
got me through my degree! (130)
Access is needed:
'if we are moving towards evidence-based librarianship'(014)
'for the quality of our research too.' (014)
For Chartership: 'Yes. Oh yes. Have just left library school and started
Route A, and am missing it...!'(030)
And CPD
But there are difficulties with current access:
' I need to access it occasionally, but where I work we only have it
available through Dialog, and I can't afford to pay the search charges
myself...(036)
'I am based very close to a University which has a Communication Studies
Dept. and therefore takes LISA but I cannot get access there as I am not a
registered student anymore thought have studied there twice in the past.
This just enforces the closed loop of research/evidence seeking being
something you do when you do a formal course - but not a part of your normal
daily professional practice.' (053)
The relevance of this to the LA/CILIP is that:
'it contributes well to the image of the LA / CILIP as a professional
organisation' (030)
'other professional bodies provide access to databases for their members'
(037)
'it is the single most important thing our professional body could do to
develop a research culture among library and information managers.' (053)
'I think it could be argued to be a duty of CILIP (to provide remote access)
if they are serious about continuing professional development and having a
role to play.'(079) and it is 'surely a tangible way to demonstrate
commitment to continuing professional development?!' (099) 'LA/CILIP have a
CPD remit.'(122)
'LA must be spending a vast amount on the building. I dont begrudge them
that, but it shows they are able to decide to spend a large amount on a
project if necessary. It also increases the case for complementing this
improvement in on-site provision with investing in good remote access to the
resources we need' (155)
No 1
Q2 Would you want access from home and work, i.e. from anywhere (rather than
limited to some institutions)?
Yes 144
Respondents noted that limiting it to institutions might be complex (030),
would limit access. 'If it's to be a membership benefit it should be
available to the member wherever they happen to be.'(059)
However, some said that they would prefer this, but limited access, such as
by institution would be better than none (023, 004,082)
The wish is for unrestricted access via the internet (137) - password rather
than IP controlled.(036, 026,133), ('and anyway IP address authentication is
a nightmare' (099)). Ideally , using 'a system which worked like Athens
authentication and recognised the individual not the PC'(053)
This would allow access at work and home (102);'a lot of lit searching is
done from home rather than workplace'(099). 'Searching for personal and work
purposes might be necessary - important to have access anywhere so available
when need arises' (037) 'The LA serves me as a professional, rather than a
few institutions. If I were to need access to literature for a course that
work would not provide time for at work, access from home would be more
convenient' (067)
And also for those not working in large organisations;' my work is now less
'librariany' than before; however, I try to keep up to date with all the
developments in the library world from home' (109)
'Access needs to be from anywhere, or the most in need of this support will
be disadvantaged' (122) Or those occasionally working from home (130) This
would 'give more flexibility especially with people changing jobs.' (053)
No 6
Three added comments about needing it only from work. One stressed that it
must be accessible at all institutions (028)
Other 2
Included one who would probably only want access at work but thought that a
password that could be used anywhere would be appropriate. (133)
Q3 Would you be prepared to pay a small extra fee (say, under UK pounds
5),in addition to membership, if this was the only way LA would provide it?
Yes 111
Many made this conditional on it being a small amount (013, 026, 092,137)
) Yes, very reluctantly (117) Yes (though rather grudgingly - we don't seem
to get much concrete benefit out of membership monies) (106)
Particularly given that subs were already so high (013) we already pay a
huge amount to LA for very little.(034)
Y if it was a 'small extra fee'- but they would likely ask for more than
this and it really should be free as with other professional organisations.
What else does the LA use our not insubstantial subscription fees for? (060)
'I would be prepared to pay extra (but not too much extra as the current
fees are extortionate enough!)' (130) 'I think we pay a lot for what we get
at the moment, so it would be fair enough to have it provided within current
costs. Perhaps membership costs could be increased for those with higher
wage brackets?? (133)
And concern about variable financial resources:
'Perhaps membership costs could be increased for those in higher wage
brackets??' (133)
Yes - but am retired and doing voluntary work so it would have to be very
small or perhaps graduated - for those in employment etc. (149)
Others were more accepting, under the conditions mentioned:
Yes. It surely would not cost very much to maintain with all members
contributing to the cost. (067)
Yes if this was kept to between £5-£10 pa (082)
Yes I would be prepared to pay up to £5 extra per year on my subscriptions
for this and I speak as someone who doesn't get the perk of having their
subscription paid by their employer. (053)
However, a small minority would be prepared to pay more eg 'I wonder if it's
worth asking people how much extra they'd be willing to pay - I'd probably
consider as much as £20 extra per year for the sheer hassle saved.... '(014)
Absolutely! (036)
Comparison was made with other professional organisations 'this worked well
for the RCN, didn't it?'(030)
Others suggested ways of organizing it:
'Y but only if it was optional like group membership' (086)
Yes (but can imagine that this could be difficult to administer - however
many institutions are having to make cutbacks so maybe LA needs to look at
different ways of supporting database) (089)
I would pay up to £20 for access. I would not pay any more as I don't feel
that the LA has done enough to support it's members in terms of helping us
to earn a decent salary. My salary, I needed my BA(Hons) Information and
Library Management Degree to get the job, started on £11,500 (114)
'I take it that member payments would not increase annually above the rate
of inflation?' (135)
No 29
The main comment was that the LA subs are 'quite enough already' and the
costs should be included as part of membership benefits (010,020, 095,098,
127,131,136). One commented that the LA/IIS are making big savings by
merging (011). And several expressed dissatisfaction with the services
received eg 'we already pay a large membership fee for very little benefits'
(112)
Other comments were 'no, unless there were links to full text!' (008)
One suggested 'erhaps they could arrange for members to have , say, ten free
searches a year. This would reduce costs and would not impact on existing
sales too much.'(059) Another 'I think it should be included in the fee,
even if this meant a slight increase in the subscription.'(024)
Some have other access (136): 'if they won't provide it free I'll continue
visiting the BL Humanities Reading Room, (but I know other people not
situated in London don't have that as an easy option).'(079); 'I can get
access elsewhere'(136)
Others pointed out issues of principle: 'I don't ask my library members to
pay extra fees every time we purchase a new database for them!' (102), 'not
happy to give more money (as a matter of principle). Perhaps a rethink on
priorities?' (122)
It was noted that it depended on the deal :'difficult to judge really
without ball-park figures of cost'. (122), 'if the LA can get a deal like
the CSP did, then I don't think this is a significant amount to justify
increasing our subscriptions' (131).
other 12 (did not select Y or N but put in a comment)
Preferably not, but if this were the only way, then yes. (021) Reluctantly,
yes (077).If necessary (019)
Not sure, they charge us a lot at the moment for not very much! (022)
I think it should be included in the fee, even if this meant a slight
increase in the subscription.(024)
Possibly- but LA fees quite a lot anyway so a nominal fee only (037)
Unsure (it depends on the overall annual cost) (039)
Only if I really had to - don't feel I get very much for my membership
anyway.(040)
Not at the moment as I do get it free through my institution - but yes in
principle. (062)
If included in membership fees then yes, if in addition to be paid
separately, it makes it more difficult, so no.(087)
Rather not BUT Yes if it could be done by forgoing a group membership or for
less than the cost of joining an extra group. (Can't remember offhand what
extra group membership costs.) (100)
To be honest, I feel the subscription is rather hefty anyway and so would
prefer not to have to pay anything extra. But I suppose an extra £5 would
not be too much to pay. (103)
not stated 1
General Comments:
I don't know how I didn't notice that other professional bodies give access
to databases and mine doesn't (010)
(from one of the NeLH team) This is something which has also been mentioned
in relation to the librarians portal - whether we could organise a sub on
behalf of health librarians but this approach would probably be easier in
terms of licensing, I think! The CSP provide access to AMED for their users
via their website (and the NeLH physio portal) so it's certainly
achievable.(014)
I only want LISA, that is quite enough (010) (referring to the other LIS
databases mentioned in the email)
Think as HLG has loadsa money it could sub! (006)
I think some of my colleagues who are not members of this list would also
feel the same (009)(who replied 'yes' to all questions)
This has been flagged up in Scotland by the NHSiS librarians group, so
perhaps the Scottish Executive may look at adding it to their eLibrary, or
perhaps it could go on the librarians pages of NeLH (027)
Am a member of IIS rather than the LA, but would still like access to
anything that made keeping up to date easier! (038)
for those of us working in small specialist libraries with little to spend
on library type resources this would be a real boon! (046)
I think this is a great idea. I have access to LISA via my employer but
smaller organisations couldn't/wouldn't pay for it. (047)
As an overseas member of LA my response to your 3 questions regarding LISA
is "yes" to each of them. Apart from the LA Record and the Health Libraries
Group's newsletter, I do not gain much from membership of LA and have been
thinking about not renewing my membership next year. To have access to a
database such as LISA for a small add on fee would increase the
attractiveness of continued membership for me and, probably, other overseas
members who are also not UK citizens. (048)
A great idea, one that the North West has brought up before with the
Regional Director! Muir Gray once said to me that he didn't know why the
librarians in the UK didn't do more research - no great surprise when even
our own professional body doesn't properly support it. (055)
I think this would be extremely useful for solo librarians and those outside
large institutions/ universities etc. (058)
I recently had a search done for me by the information centre at LAHQ. They
did mention that they were looking at making remote access possible for
members. As you say, other professional bodies do it. Maybe it will
attract people back to CILIP if they have this as part of
membership, you never know! (066)
This would be great. It is very difficult to get access at present since it
is available only on DIALOG, which we don't use here. (068)
Yes to all three - I have been wondering lately how I can keep up to date
and although I have access to biomedical databases I often want to access
LISA. (071)
Although I'm not part of the LIS-MEDICAL group, I was forwarded your emails
about this subject. I must admit I always assumed LISA was provided by the
LA!! (102- an NHS librarian)
Access to LISA would be a really good idea. (109)
Hear, hear. Also access to e journals. Also access to e-journals. Those of
us in professional body lis organisations have developed some experience in
this which I'm sure we'd all be happy to put at the disposal of the
LA/CILIP, if only they asked :)...
A little know fact though, is that at the moment, Ridgmount Street offer a
free mediated searching service: got them to run me one on catalogue record
quality.....
I was up there yesterday pm, to do a search for myself, and the person who
runs it said again "did you know we can do this for you if you can't get
here?". I suppose if they made too much noise about it the demand would be
overwhelming (or would it? Do I have an over-optimistic view of the
profession's appetite for CPD). (110)
I think it would be an excellent idea for LISA access to be included with LA
membership and I would be prepared to pay extra. (118)
I often wonder what we pay our LA subs for. They claim they are not a union
and thus cannot help with things like grading appeals, poor levels of pay
and so on, the LA Record is a pretty lightweight publication and the Jobs
Supplement is limited in coverage. On top of this we have to pay in order
to keep ourselves chartered. (031)
There was some discussion about LISA access via the LA at the Evidence Based
Librarianship conference in Sheffield in September 2001. I don't know if
anything about it was minuted, but it might add justification to your
case... It would be excellent to be able to access LISA.(131)
Yes to all three questions. After all, we should be working towards evidence
based librarianship and so we increasingly need access to the evidence.
The RCN have recently followed the BMA in offering access to databases for
members, and I think that this is one of the more useful things that CILIP
could do. However, given the range of places that members work it would have
to be done by password access rather than IP address. If it was only
available in selected institutes I wouldn't be prepared to pay extra for it.
(140)
Muir Gray once said to me that he didn't know why the librarians in the UK
didn't do more research - no great surprise when even our own professional
body doesn't properly support it.
.. an idea that the North West has brought up before with the Regional
Director!...as a result of quite a few of us requesting it, they take it at
the regional unit on a one licence basis, and you can either go there and do
your own searching or one of them will do it for you. Its not like having it
online available at home, but the Director did take on board our point of
view and its better than nothing (055)
'my usual comment in the LA members information centre visitors book is that
LISA should be available to LA members (as searching it is usually the
reason I go to visit in the first place!). At the LA's members day I
attended a seminar on the members information centre, and they handed out a
survey on information provision to members, which included a question asking
whether members would like to be able to search LISA from their PC, and if
they would be willing to pay for it (however, I'm not sure how widely this
survey was distributed, only to the people at the seminar I suspect, as
no-one I've spoken to has seen it!). It would be interesting to see what the
'results' from this were.' (024)
'I really hope LA/CILIP try to do something about it, as I don't think
expense is an excuse as:
a) we pay a relatively high subscription already
b) they are the association for LIS so really should provide a better LIS
than they currently do for their members!'(024)
Replies from people who did not participate in survey
From ex-member, following brief feedback that some hold view they don't get
much for their subs:
'I would recommend that you try not renewing for a year and see if you
notice the difference. I did, and didn't, if you see what I mean.' (C1)
From ex-LA council member, health librarian
'Not long after I was elected to LA council I spoke (I thought) movingly
about the need for the LA to provide decent information and library services
as part of its membership package - and was greeted with total silence and
an immediate move to another subject. Thank good ness the BMA feels
differently.' (C2)
I for one would be prepared to pay more for online access to LISA. To some
extent this is a cultural question about the nature of what professionals
require of a professional association. When the LA decided in the 80s not
to run its own alexandrian model library, but to integrate an information
service within BL, there were no doubt lots of good arguments on both sides
of that choice. I am not saying that that decision was on balance a bad
one. However, one unfortunate result of the LA not running its own Library
for members is the message that this gives out to other employers about the
advantages of special and workplace libraries....
Another factor in any sort of poll or vote that you might compile with
respect to a LISA online premium, is how would the para-professional members
value such a service and vote, now that they are admitted to the LA/CILIP.
(C3)
The issue for is that if we are going to be practising evidence based
librarianship, then we need access to the evidence base, and our
professional organisation should be helping us to do so. (C4)
LA correspondence: (031) and me...
-----Original Message-----
Sent: 14 September 2001 15:24
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: LISA access
Jill
Further to me phoning earlier today the lady you referred me to informed me
that due to your LISA site licence it can only be used from within the LA
Building. I therefore write to ask that the Association consider getting a
licence which allows Internet access from anywhere. In my case lack of
access to LISA has been a big drawback in my professional development,
research and getting material ready for publications.
Both the RCN (BNI Plus and full text journals) and BMA (Index Medicus,
EmBase) give their members access to their professional resources.
Gaining access to LISA would be of immense benefit and I am sure the
majority of members of the LA would feel the same.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------
Received 6/11/01
Sorry not to have replied sooner. Our excuse is that this an area on which
we are actively working as part of the overall development of Member's
Information Services. It was discussed at the workshop which I held on LA
Member's Day. I am in no doubt that it would be a popular and useful service
for members but because it would cover such a large slice of potential LISA
users, CIG (who now own LISA) would probably want to charge us heavily.
However we are in preliminary discussion with them. If we did offer such a
service it would be through some form of "member's portal" and unfortunately
this is not likely to be ready for some time. Members will be kept informed
of all developments through the LAR and LA website and their CILIP
successors. In the meantime, although I know it has limitations, I do hope
you will utilise our remote access service.
Jill
Jill Martin
Head of International Relations and Information Services
The Library Association
Tel: 020 7255 0640 Fax: 020 7255 0501
Email: [log in to unmask]
I have sent this message to her on 15th Feb, but no reply yet:
'[LISA access for LA members] is a hot issue from a discussion on
lis-medical. I'm still collating the huge response at the moment, but
thought it was only fair to contact you and find out if the situation
described in your message below is still accurate.
Various messages from yourself, Elspeth Hyams and Bob McKee have been
received by various people over the last couple of years, which all seem to
say 'we are looking into it but it would be expensive', which is a fair
point. However, after this length of 'looking into', it would be useful to
know:
1.*When* any decision might be taken- where have you got to?
2. Presumably,it would inevitably be after CILIP is formed; does that mean
any negotiating will have to start again from scratch then?
3. I realise a financial decision of this magnitude would need council
approval, and we dont know who will be on that yet. But since many will be
as currently on LA, do the current ones have any interest in this & related
issues of remote access to materials for CPD? One respondent with past
experience of them thought not, but this may not still be accurate.
4. What is the timetable for the members portal and why is that/ LISA going
to take some time (is that months or years)?
Clarification on these points would be very helpful. Its easy for us to make
assumptions about the LA but I feel it is much better to find out the
accurate picture. I will report your reply to the list with the survey
results.
I passed on the information that mediated searching of LISA by your staff
was available to LA members to lis-medical as soon as I found out myself, by
the way.
Thanks.
NB This message is in a personal LIS prof/LA & IIS member capacity, not as
from BL.'
That's all, folks (if any of you get this far!)
Fiona
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