Hugh
Your first sentence doesn't quite reflect what I said. I merely said that many of the tests I have seen relate specifically to Key Skills and so far, these have not proved very useful/predictive.
Thanks for the other comments
Dianne
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hugh Fletcher [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 19 April 2002 12:45
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Diagnostic testing
>
> Hi,
> Dianne Willis states that skills tests are not
> predictive of those needing academic support. Since my earlier
> response I have had a few e-mails and would like to enlarge a
> bit. I have watched scores of students before ill named "support"
> and "progress" committees, and the following is based on the
> students who fail.
> We are taking nearly 50% of the relevant age group into higher
> education, which goes from the top of the ability range to Mr.
> and Ms average (by definition at 50%). Half the population is
> "average" so about 70% of the population have the ABILITY to get
> to HE. Put another way, there is no clear difference between
> individuals in the second and third quartiles of the population,
> they are all effectively average, with a mixture of strengths
> and weaknesses, but only some enter HE. 25 years ago, very few
> of this group would have got A-levels at all. GCSEs maybe.
>
> So our entrants are
> (i) the high fliers who will mostly be creamed off into
> the most demanding or desirable institutions and courses (e.g.
> oxbridge, medicine)
> (ii) The top quartile, who will succeed without help unless they
> have a nervous breakdown
> (iii) the "average" students, ranging from above average
> intelligence but not well applied workaholics to the below
> average intelligence who worked hard and/or had good coaches.
> They all arrive level, but we have to predict who will succeed,
> who will fall by the wayside, and this comes down more to their
> psychology (motivation, interest) than ability, which we cannot
> change anyway. My calculation is that ability/ skills should
> be weighted at one third of the prediction. The rest is related
> to motivation and external social factors affecting the work
> rate. The students who fail our Skills module are the ones who
> don't attend and don't hand in work.
>
> Some pointers (but not carefully worded questions) we can ask
> about are:-
>
> Career aims; do you know what you want to do? vague aims -
> vague motivation
>
> Did you really want to be a vet/brain surgeon/rocket
> scientist/journalist/dancer? (i.e. not on this course.
> Yes = bad unless they really have accepted reality.
>
> Did you apply to university because it is what you do after
> A-levels? Yes = AAhhhh!
>
> Is this subject degree essential to your career aims?
> Yes = good, no = bad
>
> Is this subject your first choice? yes = good
> If they came through clearing, then obviously they did not get
> their first six choices.
>
> Was this subject your best subject at A-level? If so did it
> affect your choice of degree subject? Yes = bad
>
> Did you choose this subject because you thought it would be
> interesting and difficult? Yes = good
>
> Did you choose this subject because it seemed easy at school?
> yes = bad.
>
> Do you have to get (or will you get) a part time job? no = good
> If so, how many hours a week is the maximum you can do and still
> study? Answers >10 hours very bad misplaced confidence.
>
> Will someone be pleased to hear how you do in each essay?
> Yes = good, (support).
>
> What family ties are there? Does the student help with the
> family business? Is a parent/ sib disabled? retired early? in
> ill health? All potential drains on private study time.
>
> How much alcohol/ other drugs do you consume per week?
> None = good
>
> Do your friends drink more or less than you? Less = good
>
> How hard do your friends study, more or less than you? More =>
> good.
>
> Have you ever lived away from home before? Yes = good.
>
> Do you always look on the bright side? yes= good.
>
> Do you ever feel miserable, fed up and worthless? Yes =
> potential suicide.
>
> Do you think this course will be
> easy? No = good; OK if I work hard = better.
>
> I feel like producing a more subtle version for my 250 first
> years.
>
> A few of these "average" students use brilliance to replace hard
> work. For the rest, with similar "average" abilities, most rely
> on rote graft. The dividing line between success and failure is
> then the motivation to do the hard graft, not their key skills
> ability.
> The really low IQ ones who relied on coaching and memory
> (often short term) will be difficult to support in a large
> student body. Accept some failures.
>
> On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:22:20 +0100 "Willis, Dianne [IES]"
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > My name is Dianne Willis and I work at Leeds Metropolitan University.
> >
> > I am very interested in supporting year one students academically and am looking to introduce some diagnostic testing in year 1 to (hopefully) enable us to target extra support where it is most needed. Many of the tests I have seen relate specifically to Key Skills and so far, these have not proved very useful/predictive.
> >
> > Does anyone use any tests they could recommend for me to trial?
> >
> > Dianne Willis
> > Principal Lecturer
> > Leeds Metropolitan University
> > School of Information Management
> > Beckett Park Campus
> > Leeds
> > LS6 3QS
> >
> > Tel 0113 283 2600 x4737
>
> ----------------------
> Best wishes,
> Hugh Fletcher
>
> Hugh Fletcher
> School of Biology and Biochemistry
> Queen's University of Belfast
> 97 Lisburn Road
> Belfast
> BT9 7BL
>
> Tel. : +44 (0)28 90272084 Direct
> Fax (School office): +44 (0)28 90236505
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