---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Date: 05 March 2002 00:00 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of VICTORIA digests <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: VICTORIA Digest - 3 Mar 2002 to 4 Mar 2002 (#2002-64)
There are 31 messages totalling 1126 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Thackeray and Dickens (3)
2. Aesthetic Movement (10)
3. Literary references to 'Tottenham Court Road'? (3)
4. Tottenham Court Road (2)
5. Aesthetic Movement and Millais's 'cuckolding'
6. Aesthetic Movement and Ruskin's relation to it
7. Expedition funding (2)
8. Swinburne on Blake; PRB (2)
9. Douglas Jerrold (2)
10. quotation help: DHL on George Eliot (3)
11. Roy Porter
12. Periodicals and Jane Eyre
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:09:36 -0800
From: Sheldon Goldfarb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Thackeray and Dickens
Further to what Patrick says and sounding a bit like the Patten article on
Vanity Fair and Dombey, there's a 1981 article by Rebecca Rodolf in
Victorian Periodicals Review called "The Weekly Chronicle's Month-by-Month
Reception of Pendennis and David Copperfield."
There are also some articles in the Dickensian discussing various aspects of
how Dickens and Thackeray were received, for instance a 1978 article by
Joanne Shattock about how the two were received on lecture tours; apparently
tour organizers preferred Thackeray because he was less demanding.
That same year Arnold Whitridge published an article on Dickens and
Thackeray in America (in the New York Historical Quarterly) saying that
Thackeray did not inspire either the extreme enthusiasm or the extreme
bitterness that Dickens inspired among Americans.
There's also a 1987 book by Jerome Meckier called *Hidden Rivalries in
Victorian Fiction: Dickens, Realism, and Revaluation*, which deals a bit
with the Thackeray-Dickens competition, though mostly to downplay it.
But as Patrick says, it would be interesting to see a fuller analysis of the
Dickens-Thackeray comparisons prevalent in the Victorian period.
Sheldon Goldfarb
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 02:41:18 -0500
From: lfem0119 <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aesthetic Movement
Of course there is also the old view, taken by William Gaunt in his book
*The Aesthetic Adventure*, that the British Aesthetic movement had its
beginnings in the French writers such as Gautier, Rimbaud, and Baudelaire.
Gaunt was of the opinion that it was James MacNeill Whistler who brought it
over to Britain, having been steeped in it during his art school days in
Paris. This always seemed to me a facile explanation, however. The
influences on such a movement had to have been more varied than just one
direction.
If you take the Aesthetic movement's tenent to be that of "art for art's
sake", you cannot really bring in the Pre-Raphaelites, with their
storytelling and moral issues. Some of the later painters however, like
Burne-Jones and Albert Moore, fall in to the Aesthetic category.
So I suppose, I'm for dating it from the 1860's or 70's.
Elizabeth McCollum
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[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:28:48 -0000
From: Chris Willis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Literary references to 'Tottenham Court Road'?
Hi!
There are lots of references to Tottenham Court Road furniture in early 20C
fiction. The implication is that furniture bought there was tasteless,
inartistic and probably mass-produced for the middle-classes. I forget the
names of the furniture shops that were there then - probably Heals or a
forerunner.
Hope this helps
All the best
Chris
================================================================
Chris Willis - London Guildhall University
[log in to unmask]
http://www.chriswillis.freeserve.co.uk/
"Research is formalized curiosity. It is poking and prying with a
purpose." (Zora Neale Hurston)
================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:28:16 -0000
From: Paul Lewis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Literary references to 'Tottenham Court Road'?
In 1873 Wilkie Collins used Hewetson and Thexton 200, 203, 204 Tottenham
Court Road Manufacturers of Superior Household Furniture to furnish the home
in Marylebone Road which Martha Rudd, the mother of his children, lived in
for barely a year. He used his alias of Dawson which he adopted when with
Martha - she was Mrs Dawson and his children bore that name. There is an
image of the bill which was for just over £100 in William Clarke's The
Secret Life of Wilkie Collins see plate and pp136-7.
Paul
Paul Lewis
web www.paullewis.co.uk
tel 07836 217311
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:39:17 EST
From: Judith Flanders <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Tottenham Court Road
martina droth <[log in to unmask]>
wrote
I haven't got any literary references to TCR to hand (although -- someone
else may remember -- doesn't it appear in Gissing?). In actuality, two of
the most renowned big shops of the period were there: Schoolbred's, and
Maples. Schoolbred's sold, as far as I can tell, in particular drapery and
haberdashery; Maples was known for its furniture (The last Tsarina had all
her furniture bought there and shipped to Russia on her marriage.), and only
closed within the last decade or so. It may very well be that the street
also had cheap shops, but certainly those who shopped at the two big stores
were not participating in this end of the market: they were both deeply
middle class.
Judith Flanders
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:06:34 -0000
From: Paul Lewis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Tottenham Court Road
It may also be worth reminding list members of
www.concordance.com
where you can put in a phrase or a word and do a search of more than 1000
e-texts. TCR gives dozens of answers including this one from The Invisible
Man
And then I had a brilliant idea. I turned down one of the roads
leading from Gower Street to Tottenham Court Road, and found myself
outside Omniums, the big establishment where everything is to be
bought--you know the place--meat, grocery, linen, furniture,
clothing, oil paintings
Paul
Paul Lewis
web www.paullewis.co.uk
tel 07836 217311
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:01:52 -0000
From: Paul Barlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aesthetic Movement and Millais's 'cuckolding'
Just to add a note to Margot Louis's note. Ruskin was not 'cuckolded'
byMillais. Two reasons - his marriage was annulled, which technically meant
that it had never properly occurred in the first place, so cuckolding
couldn't occur. But even if we accept that this point is rather pedantic,
the fact is that Mrs. R was shown to be a virgin, which is what ensured the
annulment, so that she was still a virgin when she married Millais. So no
cuckolding at all went on.
The 'Aesthetic Movement' is a very vague concept, but 'it' is normally said
to begin in the 1860s. However some of Leighton's works, and indeed
Millais's (Spring) can be said to lead into it. But it was Whistler's 'White
Girl' (1862) that really started the debate about art as a 'pure'
arrangement of colour. Nevertheless Rossetti's 'Bocca Baciata' of 1859 was
also about visual (and erotic) pleasure, and Leighton's 'Lieder Ohne Worte',
of the year before Whistler's exhibit began the music-titling convention, in
so far as the painting had no story, but was concerned to create a sense of
relaxed pleasure. So, really you have a bringing-together of tendencies in
the early 1860s. The idea that there is a 'movement' slowly gains ground
over the decade, but is probably not really thrust into public consciousness
until the Whistler/Ruskin trial, 'Patience', and the entrance of Wilde on
the scene - so that by the 1880s the notion that there are 'aesthetes' who
are concerned with living lives devoted to 'beauty' has become a cliche. By
that time Leighton and Whistler had both extended these ideas about art to
the notion that life itself should be beautified in decor, and even in ones
personal life.
Paul Barlow
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:16:42 -0000
From: Paul Barlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aesthetic Movement and Ruskin's relation to it
Ruskin's relationship with Aestheticism is rather more difficult to
define,as his interests had moved away from art at the time it really got
going. Obviously the Whistler trial fiasco implied a 'rejection' of it by
Ruskin, but it is not as simple as that. Rossetti was supported - with
reservations - by Ruskin. Ruskin also praised Moore and Burne-Jones. It all
depends who and what one 'includes' in the movement - which was never
defined by anyone. But what Ruskin disliked was the idea that beauty was
amoral - a point made by both Wilde and Whistler. In particular, he
rejected the idea that art was in its essence only concerned with beauty,
and that it thus appealed to what he had called the 'aesthetic' as opposed
to 'theoretic' faculties. As far as Ruskin was concerned he had disproved
Aestheticism before the movement even began - in 'Modern Painters'.
Whistler's view that art was about itself - paint and colour was no
different in Ruskin's mind from the idea that you paint a landscape by
laying on harmonious tones to get the 'right look': the practice of the
painters he had so laboriously attacked back in his earliest publication.
Paul Barlow
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:34:45 +0000
From: Adrian Dover <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Literary references to 'Tottenham Court Road'?
martina droth wrote:
> Has anyone else come across references to the Tottenham Court Road in
> nineteenth century texts/criticisms or novels?
Henry James in 1890's was not as openly dismissive of the TCR furniture
trade...
1) in _The spoils of Poynton_ (1897) Mrs Gereth uses them for moving the
spoils as she tells Fleda: '"...But they were all to be had -- a little
army of workers, the packers, the porters, the helpers of every sort, the
men with the mighty vans. It was a question of arranging in Tottenham Court
Road and of paying the price."' (ch.7)
although he obviously felt that they were of the mundane...
2) in the tale _The real right thing_ (1899) we find this delightful
contrast between the prosaic modern home of the deceased author and the
growing realisation that his spirit is trying to stop the widow and a
biographer completing the proposed 'Life' (stick with it, please):
'Without design, but panting a little and positively as a man scared, he
passed along his usual corridor and reached the top of the staircase.
From this point he saw Mrs Doyne looking up at him from the bottom quite
as if she had known he would come; and the most singular thing of all was
that, though he had been conscious of no notion to resort to her, had only
been prompted to relieve himself by escape, the sight of her position made
him recognize it as just, quickly feel it as a part of some monstrous
oppression that was closing over both of them. It was wonderful how, in
the mere modern London hall, between the Tottenham Court Road rugs and the
electric light, it came up to him from the tall black lady, and went again
from him down to her, that he knew what she meant by looking as if he would
know.'
Coincidentally, an etext of the latter work will be appearing on my HJ
web-site later today (I was proofing it over the weekend, such are the
workings of chance!)
Adrian Dover
---
mailto:[log in to unmask]
http://web.bham.ac.uk/doveral/james/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:49:02 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Aesthetic Movement
<< By the time Wilde came along, Aestheticism had become a way of life
as well as a movement in art and art theory. >>
Yes, but when, when, when? There must be some known first use of the word
(or form thereof) to describe this movement. I wouldn't count the PRB since
it came out of that for the most part, no? Is there any show, event or the
like that marks, at least, an early beginning. Patience, the Gilbert and
Sullivan opertta, pegs it in the middle somewhere. It was said to have even
prolonged the movement.
Matt Demakos
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:55:41 +0000
From: Gillian Kemp <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Expedition funding
4 March 2002
Dear List Members
I am trying to find out about Government UK funding for expeditions by
recognised organisations/ societies in the 1860's. Was there a particular
procedure? Did it depend on 'who you knew'? I'm not looking for direct
answers from members (although that would be very nice) but rather
suggestions as to where I might look eg. websites, publications etc.
Many thanks
Gillian Kemp
Independent Researcher
..........................................
Mrs Gillian Kemp, MA
White Gables
10 Cranborne Road
Hatfield
Herts AL10 8AP
tel: 01707 267540 (day) 01707 891733 (eve)
fax: 01707 262327
alternative email: <[log in to unmask]>
..........................................
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:30:17 -0500
From: "Roberto C. Ferrari" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Aesthetic Movement
In case no one has mentioned it yet, for more on the Aesthetic Movement, I
recommend the following:
Lambourne, Lionel. The Aesthetic Movement. London: Phaidon Press, 1996.
-- Roberto
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:01:19 -0500
From: Jonathan Loesberg <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aesthetic Movement
The OED lists the first use of "aestheticism" as 1855 in a review of
Tennyson's Lotos-Eaters. It may have occurred a few years earlier (German
philologists made a cottage industry of trumping the OED at one point). The
problem with giving you a date is, as numbers of emails have suggested,
there wasn't a movement in the sense of a number of people getting together
in a room and deciding to start one. So you have to decide who counts as in
the movement to decide when it started. G&S's Patience, by the way, even
though Bunthorne is modelled on Wilde, pre-dates most of what Wilde wrote
and was more based on his reputation at Oxford (and of course Grossmith
played the character more as Whistler than as Wilde). If one dates the
movement to Wilde's time at Oxford in the 1870s, then, the key figure will
be Pater. But Pater's phrase "art for art's sake" can be found in Morris's
book on William Blake as well as in French writers mentioned in a prior
note (if one takes "art for art's sake" as translating "l'art pour art").
And despite the contrast between Ruskin on the one hand and Pater and Wilde
in terms of art's connection to morality, both Pater and Wilde did mean to
live an aesthetic life, took that position as a moral one and were indebted
to Ruskin for many of their formulations (it is of course true that Ruskin
didn't see them that way). The answer to the question when thus still rests
on the answer to the prior questions who and what.
Jonathan Loesberg
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Sent by: VICTORIA To:
[log in to unmask] 19th-Century British
cc:
Culture & Society Subject: Aesthetic
Movement <[log in to unmask]
DIANA.EDU>
03/04/02 08:49 AM
Please respond to
VICTORIA 19th-Century
British Culture &
Society
<< By the time Wilde came along, Aestheticism had become a way of life
as well as a movement in art and art theory. >>
Yes, but when, when, when? There must be some known first use of the word
(or form thereof) to describe this movement. I wouldn't count the PRB
since
it came out of that for the most part, no? Is there any show, event or the
like that marks, at least, an early beginning. Patience, the Gilbert and
Sullivan opertta, pegs it in the middle somewhere. It was said to have
even
prolonged the movement.
Matt Demakos
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:54:33 +0000
From: Nicola Bown <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aesthetic Movement
[log in to unmask] wrote:
> Is there any show, event or the like that marks, at least, an early
> beginning.
Isn't the point that 'the aesthetic movement' is a retrospective label, a
term applied to designate a phenomenon that can only be distinguished
historically qua phenomenon? The word 'movement' (as Paul Barlow has
pointed out) quite wrongly seems to describe a coherent grouping with
unified aims and ideas; whereas Aestheticism is a collection of works
(artistic, literary, critical), persons, relationships, ideas and
tendencies which can be linked together into a critical-historical
narrative. So any event that could be said to inaugurate the movement would
be serving only the heuristic purpose of implying a future coherence of
'the aesthetic movement'.
However, if there is an event which marks a moment of self-consciousness
about Aestheticism as a movement in contradistinction to the mainstream, it
surely is the Whistler-Ruskin trial - even though the beginnings of
Aestheticism are much earlier in the late 1850s, and even further back if
one wants to follow the influence of such French sources as Gautier's
'Preface to Mlle de Maupin' (1835).
Nicola Bown
--
Nicola Bown
Birkbeck College
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:10:32 -0600
From: Micael Clarke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Thackeray and Dickens
Jerome Meckier comparesThackeray and Dickens for about six pages in his
Hidden Rivalries in VIctorian Fiction: Dickens, Realism and Revaluation
(1987). He finds more resemblances than differences, but his study may be
helpful to anyone wishing to pursue the subject.
Micael Clarke
Loyola University Chicago
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:38:09 -0500
From: Charles Sligh <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Swinburne on Blake; PRB
The early formulation of "art for art's sake" may, in fact,
be found in the long study of Blake which evolved from
Swinburne's review of Gilchrist's _The Life of William
Blake, Pictor Ignotus_ (1863):
To ask help or furtherance from her in any
extraneous good work is exactly as rational as to
expect lyrical beauty of form and flow in a logical
treatise. . . . But if the artist does work with
an eye to such results or for the sake of bringing
about such improvements, he will too probably fail
even of them. Art for art's sake first of all, and
afterwards we may suppose all the rest shall be
added to her (or if not she need hardly be overmuch
concerned). (90-91)
Swinburne apparently completed the review essay in 1865;
publication of the longer study--_William Blake: A
Critical Essay_, quoted above--was postponed until 1868.
And I would counter the viewpoint stated in a previous
posting--that the literary basis and "moralizing"
tendencies of Pre-Raphaelite art prohibit the PRB artists'
affiliation with "art for art's sake"--as both
indiscriminate and a bit dated in view.
Of course, such claims of "moralizing" against the PRB were
broadcast and supported earlier last century by
certain Modernists, _some_ of whom were anxious to
establish their own artistic identities and lineages. For
that particular project, at that particular moment, such
distancing claims were often crucial. Especially see
Eliot's struggle with Rossetti over the legacy of Dante;
and, for more dynamic encounters and exchanges with the PRB
legacy, see Ford, Pound, and Joyce.
However, for _our_ own particular moment, to counter our
inherited Modernist prejudices and to encourage the project
of reorienting our view of the PRB, I would first ask,
"_Which_ works by _which_ PRB artists may be viewed as
'moralizing'?" One finds a good deal of difference, both
among the various PRB members and associates, and
especially among the individual works by individual
artists.
As someone who works closely on a daily basis with the
poems and paintings of Dante Gabriel Rossetti (_Pictor
Ignotus_), I would respond to my own question, admonishing
myself, saying that, as of this particular moment, we have
not yet begun in our attempts to hear and to see, to
approach what happens in and through these works.
CLS
----------------------
Charles L. Sligh
Department of English
University of Virginia
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:23:46 GMT
From: Richard Pearson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Thackeray and Dickens
Forgive own trumpet, but in my book W.M. Thackeray & the
Mediated Text (Ashgate, 2000), I talk briefly about the Thackeray-
Dickens "rivalry" continuing throughout Thackeray's career - whilst
Thackeray was finishing The Adventures of Philip, in December
1860, the first installment of Great Expectations (1 Dec 1860),
appeared - to the consternation of George Smith (WMT's publisher)
who noticed that that they were both writing serials with a central
character called Philip. Thackeray's reply to him survives -
'as the posters are out, let Philip stand - and see if we can't make a
good fight against tother Philip'.
Richard
Dr. Richard Pearson
Curriculum Leader in English
Department of English and Drama
University College Worcester, Henwick Grove, Worcester, WR2 6AJ, UK.
[log in to unmask]
01905-855356
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:49:01 -0700
From: Jason Boyd <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aesthetic Movement
Looking through Ellmann's wonderful book on Oscar Wilde, I find it hard to
discern:
1) When the Aesthetic Movement began, what event marks it's beginning?
2) What was Ruskin's relationship with the movement?
The idea that there is a 'movement' slowly gains ground
over the decade, but is probably not really thrust into public consciousness
until the Whistler/Ruskin trial, 'Patience', and the entrance of Wilde on
the scene - so that by the 1880s the notion that there are 'aesthetes' who
are concerned with living lives devoted to 'beauty' has become a cliche. By
that time Leighton and Whistler had both extended these ideas about art to
the notion that life itself should be beautified in decor, and even in ones
personal life.
Paul Barlow
In my M.A. thesis, I examined how Wilde marketed himself as an
aesthete in order to garner public attention in London prior to his
American lecture tour. Taking a hint from Regenia Gagnier's _Idylls of
the Marketplace_ (which looks at Wilde's later career), my argument was
that 'Aestheticism' was largely delineated by the marketplace (the
production and buying of 'aesthetic' commodities) and the media.
'Aestheticism' was largely determined and disseminated by press
treatments like George Du Maurier's 'Chinamania' and 'Nincompoopiana'
series of cartoons in Punch, and a string of plays that made fun of
aesthetes, inlcluding Gilbert and Sullivan's Patience.
What became clear is that, while one can theorise about the
putative origins of this 'artistic movement,' it really only acquires
its definition and name through (negative) press. Linda Dowling, in
_Hellenism and Homosexuality in Victorian Oxford_ argues that W. H.
Mallock's satirical roman a clef, The New Republic (1877), which
included characters modelled on Pater, Ruskin, and Arnold, brought what
had heretofore been largely confined to "the circles of advanced
Victorian thought" to the larger public. Dowling writes that Mallock's
book "translat[ed] the hitherto abstruse cultural preoccupation of the
cultural elite into the ordinary language of Victorian middle-class
aspiration. As he simplifies Pater for the purposes of satire, Mallock
unintentionally makes Paterian Hellenism just that much more
acessible... contributing to the sense of young Hellenists and aesthetes
throughout England that they indeed belong to a cultural vanguard, a new
'movement' of 'choicer souls'" (110). We see this effect in Du Maurier's
cartoons which gradually discard the china-collecting medivalists (the
Pre-Raphaelites) as a target for satire, in favour of a effeminate,
self-promoting group of Hellenic artistic poseurs.
Wilde's success was in using this already formed public image of the
aesthete to garner press attention, so that, when his book of poems
appeared (itself an 'aesthetic' breviary), Punch dubbed him, ironically,
'Aesthete of Aesthetes.'
A contemporary account I would reccomend is Walter Hamilton's
_The Aesthetic Movement in England_ (1882), which is probably the
earliest attempt to define the movement and its origins. Tellingly, the
book is largely a defense of the aesthetes and aestheticism against its
detractors, and a lament that the public has not been able to truly
understand the movement because the press has 'distorted' it.
Jason Boyd
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:45:43 GMT
From: Richard Pearson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Douglas Jerrold
Although a playwright and essayist - Jerrold was also a popular novelist and
comic satirist (Punch, etc.) and it might be more for these that he was
compared with Dickens and Thackeray. His novel, St. Giles and St. James
was successful enough, whilst satirical series like the "Q papers" and "Mrs.
Caudle's Curtain Lectures" were hugely popular. And Dickens admired 'The
Story of a Feather'. His desire to publish and edit his own magazines (from
Punch in London to the Illuminated Magazine and Douglas Jerrold's Shilling
Magazine, etc.) also bears comparison with Dickens' Master Humphreys
Clock and Household Words.
Richard
Dr. Richard Pearson
Curriculum Leader in English
Department of English and Drama
University College Worcester, Henwick Grove, Worcester, WR2 6AJ, UK.
[log in to unmask]
01905-855356
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:47:57 -0800
From: Sheldon Goldfarb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Douglas Jerrold
Masson, in the North British article, says Jerrold deserves to be considered
along with Dickens and Thackeray when the three are viewed as "humorists and
men of inventive talent." But because "Jerrold's literary activity has not
been specially that of the popular novelist," Masson drops him from the
discussion.
Sheldon Goldfarb
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:04:36 -1000
From: Shelley N Nishimura <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Expedition funding
Hello,
You might take a look at Fergus Fleming's _Barrow's Boys_.
John Barrow was the second secretary to the British Admiralty and was
responsible for sending out the major explorations (government funded) of
the nineteenth century including Franklin's expedition.
Aloha,
Shelley Nishimura
On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Gillian Kemp wrote:
> 4 March 2002
>
> Dear List Members
>
> I am trying to find out about Government UK funding for expeditions by
> recognised organisations/ societies in the 1860's. Was there a particular
> procedure? Did it depend on 'who you knew'? I'm not looking for direct
> answers from members (although that would be very nice) but rather
> suggestions as to where I might look eg. websites, publications etc.
>
> Many thanks
> Gillian Kemp
> Independent Researcher
>
>
> ..........................................
> Mrs Gillian Kemp, MA
> White Gables
> 10 Cranborne Road
> Hatfield
> Herts AL10 8AP
>
> tel: 01707 267540 (day) 01707 891733 (eve)
> fax: 01707 262327
> alternative email: <[log in to unmask]>
> ..........................................
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:17:13 -0500
From: Elisabeth Rose Gruner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: quotation help: DHL on George Eliot
I'm just back from the library where I've been fruitlessly trying to track
down a quotation. Didn't DH Lawrence say of George Eliot that she was the
first novelist to "put the action inside", or something like that? If so,
where? It's one of those things that gets repeated without attribution,
alas, and I have scanned indices in collections of DHL to no avail...
If anyone has suggestions in general for how to track down quotations of
this sort--oft-repeated, oft-garbled, like Henry James on "loose baggy
monsters" to take another example--I'd be delighted to hear it!
Thanks,
Libby
Elisabeth Rose Gruner
Associate Professor of English & Women's Studies
University of Richmond
Richmond VA 23173
Voice: 804/289-8298 Fax: 804-289-8313
mailto:[log in to unmask]
http://www.richmond.edu/~egruner
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:26:28 -0800
From: Sheldon Goldfarb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aesthetic Movement
If the touchstone is the phrase "art for art's sake," it goes a long way
back. Thackeray even used it, in 1839, bemoaning the fact that literature
had become "a poor political lackey," adding: "... please God we shall begin
ere long to love art for art's sake."
Thackeray's use of the phrase I believe echoes earlier French writers, who
are discussed in Robert Colby's 1979 study: Thackeray's Canvass of Humanity.
However, I would never have thought to class Thackeray with the Aesthetes.
Sheldon Goldfarb
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:11:46 -0500
From: James Eli Adams <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aesthetic Movement
Still further back (while we're in a genealogical mode). Frederick Burwick,
in his *Mimesis and Its Romantic Reflections* (2001), argues that "the
first recorded use of the phrase 'l'art pour l'art' was in a conversation
between a Frenchman and an Englishman in Weimar, Germany" on Feb 10, 1804;
the Frenchman was Benjamin Constant, the Englishman Henry Crabb Robinson,
and (Burwick continues) it was "largely through their circle of influence
that the concept of l'art pour 'l'art was disseminated" (18). Burwick's
account is a shrewd and suggestive one.
James Eli Adams
Department of English
Cornell University
Goldwin Smith 250
Ithaca, NY 14853
(607) 255-4895/5-6800 fax: (607) 255-6661
[log in to unmask]
At 11:26 AM 3/4/02 -0800, you wrote:
>If the touchstone is the phrase "art for art's sake," it goes a long way
>back. Thackeray even used it, in 1839, bemoaning the fact that literature
>had become "a poor political lackey," adding: "... please God we shall
begin >ere long to love art for art's sake."
>
>Thackeray's use of the phrase I believe echoes earlier French writers, who
>are discussed in Robert Colby's 1979 study: Thackeray's Canvass of
Humanity. >
>However, I would never have thought to class Thackeray with the Aesthetes.
>
>Sheldon Goldfarb
>[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:43:01 -0600
From: Patrick Leary <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Roy Porter
[Roy Porter, the astonishingly prolific, erudite, and witty historian of
medicine (and much else), died yesterday. His colleague at Wellcome,
Lesley Hall, with whom he co-authored _The Facts of Life: The Creation of
Sexual Knowledge in Britain, 1650-1950_ (Yale, 1995), has kindly sent this
notice to me for forwarding to her colleagues on VICTORIA. --PL]
From: "Lesley Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
Many members of Victoria will already have heard the devastating news of the
sudden and untimely death of Roy Porter, formerly of the Wellcome Trust
Centre for the History of Medicine, UCL. Numerous scholars over many fields
of interest can attest to the inspiration and
encouragement he gave both through his writings and in person, and I can
testify that I owe him a great personal debt for his support and generosity
as a colleague and a collaborator.
I forward the following tribute by Hal Cook, Director of the Wellcome Trust
Centre for the History of Medicine at UCL, from which Roy retired last
autumn :
"Roy Porter, the popular and well-regarded historian of medicine, science,
and the Enlightenment, died on 3 March 2002. Roy was well known to the
public for his frequent appearances on radio and television in the UK,
culminating in a recent one-hour television program on the Enlightenment in
Britain, which was based on his book, Enlightenment: Britain and the
Creation of the Modern World (2000). He also authored The Greatest Benefit
to Mankind: A Medical History of Humanity and over 200 other books and
articles; he most recently published Madness: A Brief History (2002), which
has also been reviewed widely and appreciatively.
Roy was born on the last day of 1946 as the son of a jeweller, growing up in
south London (New Cross Gate) until in 1959 his family moved to the
pebble-dash suburb of Norwood, five miles away. He describes his as a happy
childhood despite the roughness of the neighbourhood, and he remained a
committed Londoner throughout his life. (He includes a few autobiographical
remarks in the preface to his typically wide-ranging and energetic London: A
Social History, 1994). His English teacher at Wilson's school in
Camberwell, David Rees, awakened him to the life of the mind. Because of
Roy's obvious intelligence, he obtained a scholarship to Cambridge and
entered the history tripos, becoming a member of a remarkable group of
students who studied with Jack Plumb and Quentin Skinner, graduating B.A. in
1968 from Christ's College (first class honours with distinction). He
continued at Christ's and at Churchill College, taking his PhD from
Cambridge in 1974. In 1979 he joined the Academic Unit of the Institute for
the History of Medicine at the Wellcome Trust, and rose to the rank of
Professor at University College London, where he remained until taking early
retirement in September 2001. At his death he was Professor Emeritus and
had been nominated for the distinction of Honorary Fellow of UCL.
Roy commanded several fields: the history of geology, London, 18th-century
British ideas and society, medicine, madness, quackery, patients and
practitioners, literature and art, on which subjects (and others) he
published over 200 books and articles. He much appreciated that famous
18th-century Londoner, Samuel Johnson, and admired (and wrote about) the
work of Edward Gibbon. He was clearly happy in retirement at St. Leonard's,
near Hastings, where he spent time working his allotment as well as
sometimes catching the train to London; he was hoping to learn how to play
the trumpet or saxophone (stories vary) and had started to travel the world.
Roy was of course also engaged in the planning for many other works of the
mind. All who knew him (including several former wives) continued to
appreciate his huge love of life and enormous energy, plentiful jewellery
and stubble of a beard, and frank but generous criticism. He is survived by
his mother, and by his partner, Natsu Hattori, to whom he dedicated his last
books, calling her 'the love of my life.'"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 02:10:04 -0800
From: Debrorah Weiner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aesthetic Movement
The Aesthetic Movement parts company with the moralsim of Ruskin. As another
contributor put it, that the Pre-Raphaelites moralism is really of a
different order. There is a wonderful quotation from Wilde in which he
explains that it is this issue which separates him from Ruskin as much as
he may admire him, that art for art's sake was his guiding principle.I
think this iwhat defines the Aesthetic Movement and what explains why it is
very different from the Arts and Crafts movement with earlier origins
(Ruskin's Nature of Gothic, and Morris, of course).
Deborah Weiner
School of Architecture,
UBC
P.S. I can locate the Wilde quotation if anyone would like it.
lfem0119 wrote:
> Of course there is also the old view, taken by William Gaunt in his book
> *The Aesthetic Adventure*, that the British Aesthetic movement had its
> beginnings in the French writers such as Gautier, Rimbaud, and Baudelaire.
> Gaunt was of the opinion that it was James MacNeill Whistler who brought
it > over to Britain, having been steeped in it during his art school days
in > Paris. This always seemed to me a facile explanation, however. The >
influences on such a movement had to have been more varied than just one >
direction.
>
> If you take the Aesthetic movement's tenent to be that of "art for art's
> sake", you cannot really bring in the Pre-Raphaelites, with their
> storytelling and moral issues. Some of the later painters however, like
> Burne-Jones and Albert Moore, fall in to the Aesthetic category.
>
> So I suppose, I'm for dating it from the 1860's or 70's.
>
> Elizabeth McCollum
> [log in to unmask]
> [log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:55:21 -0500
From: David Latane <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Swinburne on Blake; PRB
Charles Sligh wrote:
>The early formulation of "art for art's sake" may, in fact,
>be found in the long study of Blake which evolved from
>Swinburne's review of Gilchrist's _The Life of William
>Blake, Pictor Ignotus_ (1863):
>
> To ask help or furtherance from her in any
> extraneous good work is exactly as rational as to
> expect lyrical beauty of form and flow in a logical
> treatise. . . . But if the artist does work with
> an eye to such results or for the sake of bringing
> about such improvements, he will too probably fail
> even of them. Art for art's sake first of all, and
> afterwards we may suppose all the rest shall be
> added to her (or if not she need hardly be overmuch
> concerned). (90-91)
>
>Swinburne apparently completed the review essay in 1865;
>publication of the longer study--_William Blake: A
>Critical Essay_, quoted above--was postponed until 1868.
>
And l'art pour l'art appears in Blake's friend Henry Crabb Robinson some
60 years before that.when he attempted to explain Schelling to Benjamin
Constant and Madame de Stael. See Frederick Burwick's excellent _Mimesis
and its Romantic reflections_ (2001).
David Latane
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:21:11 -0000
From: Valerie Gorman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: quotation help: DHL on George Eliot
"If anyone has suggestions in general for how to track down quotations of
this sort--oft-repeated, oft-garbled, like Henry James on "loose baggy
monsters" to take another example--I'd be delighted to hear it!"
On finding quotations, garbled or not, one resource is www.quoteland.com
where you can ask the forum to help identify the quote.
Valerie Gorman
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:08:08 -0800
From: Sheldon Goldfarb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: quotation help: DHL on George Eliot
A check on line turns up two reproductions of the quotation, but neither
gives a citation.
One does say it was a remark to a friend, so perhaps it's in a letter, which
would mean checking Lawrence's published correspondence (assuming it's been
published) and hoping there's an index entry for Eliot.
Another thought would be to look up the standard biographies of either and
check their indexes for the other.
Here's one of the on-line versions of the quote:
'Early in the 20th century, the young D. H. Lawrence, beginning his career
as a novelist, remarked to a friend: "You see, it was really George Eliot
who started it all, and how wild they all were with her for doing it. It was
she who started putting all the action inside. Before, you know, with
Fielding and the others, it had been outside. Now I wonder which is right."
'
(http://mural.uv.es/pagamo/narcontext.html)
Sheldon Goldfarb
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:47:32 -0800
From: "Margot K. Louis" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Aesthetic Movement
The Pre-Raphaelites should not be viewed as a group with any unified
doctrine or program about art--virtually every study of Pre-Raphaelitism
makes that very clear--and the kind of moral energy that infuses some of
Holman Hunt's best-known paintings isn't at all what we find in D. G.
Rossetti's best-known paintings; Rossetti's religion of beauty is
inconsistent but surely a significant contribution to the development of
aestheticism. The literary aestheticism of French Parnassians like Gautier
enters English culture more through Swinburne than Whistler, although
Swinburne and Whistler were friends during the period when this was going
on and certainly influenced each other, as recent studies have shown.
Swinburne's art criticism ("Notes on Some Pictures of 1868" and "Notes on
Designs of the Old Masters at Florence," 1868) has been shown to have been
a significant influence on Pater, and emphasizes "the love of beauty for
very beauty's sake, the faith and trust in it as a god indeed."
Nicola Bown's comments seem to me illuminating:
>Isn't the point that 'the aesthetic movement' is a retrospective label, a
term >applied to designate a phenomenon that can only be distinguished
historically >qua phenomenon? <snip> So any event that could be said to
inaugurate the >movement would be serving only the heuristic purpose of
implying a future >coherence of 'the aesthetic movement'.
As the many informative posts on this thread indicate, aestheticism
is something that grows very gradually, both inside and outside the
Pre-Raphaelite circle; one cannot point to a specific event that marks its
inception. Paul Barlow's formulation--
>you have a bringing-together of tendencies in the early 1860s--
seems to me as good as any and better than most.
I would point out that Bunthorne in _Patience_ (1881) is obviously
based in part on Swinburne (and possibly Rossetti, too) as well as Wilde
and Whistler, since the rivalry between Bunthorne the Fleshly Poet and
Grosvenor the Idyllic Poet clearly refers to Buchanan's attack on the
"Fleshly School of Poetry" (Rossetti, Swinburne, and Morris). Also
Bunthorne's poem sounds more like a parody of Swinburne than a parody of
Wilde (if it's possible to parody Wilde's verse): "What time the poet hath
hymned / The writhing maid, lithe-limbed, / Quivering..." As Bunthorne
represents aestheticism, in Gilbert's mind it would seem that the Fleshly
School did too--though I suppose one could argue that Gilbert should not be
taken as an authority on Aestheticism!
Margot K. Louis
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:59:01 -0500
From: "Cynthia M. VanSickle" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Periodicals and Jane Eyre
<html><div style='background-color:'><P>Since you have all been so helpful
to others with research questions/quandaries, I wanted to implore the
collective wisdom of the list in a project that I'm working on.</P>
<P>I'm hoping to explore the treatment of Bronte's <EM>Jane Eyre</EM> in
contemporaneous periodicals, specifically examining whether and how Bertha
Mason Rochester was depicted. If you have any suggestions as to where
to get started, I'd be truly grateful. I'm still relatively new to
archival research obviously, and I appreciate your help.</P> <P>Take
care. If so inclined, please feel free to reply off-list.
Thanks again.</P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, Serif"><IMG
height=12 src="http://graphics.hotmail.com/emsmile.gif"
width=12> Cindy VanSickle</FONT></P> <P>Department of English, Wayne
State University</P>
<P>51 W. Warren Ave.</P>
<P>Detroit, MI 48202</P>
<P>Phone: (313) 577-8632</P>
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End of VICTORIA Digest - 3 Mar 2002 to 4 Mar 2002 (#2002-64)
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